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artistsbeware2_archive2010-07-31 07:29 pm
featheredragon.livejournal.com) wrote in artistsbeware2_archive2010-07-31 07:29 pm
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Gunmouth (aka. Matt Burt)
I will be updating this thread as circumstances progress. As of right now, I regret to say that people should not commission Gunmouth. Please read below to see why.
I commissioned him at Anthrocon and he owes me two commissions which I paid for in full and one of which I have yet to give him details for (which was commissioned prior to this year's Anthrocon).
Since Anthrocon 2010, I've been contact Gunmouth to remind him about my commission from Anthrocon 2010 and ask him when he thought he might finish it. I just wanted to know when he thought he'd have it done. That way, I could just wait until then rather then messaging him every month or so. Indeed, the AC2010 commission was supposed to be finished at Anthrocon he wasn't able to get it done in time. The rough draft of the drawing was nearly complete but he had to trace it on good paper and ink it. I said, sure, no problem; I'd rather be patient and have you do it right than rush to get it done at the con. If you want to take it come and are ok with that then I'm fine with that to.
Since I've had problems communicating with him in the past prior to AC2010, I made sure to tell him that while I'm fine with being patient, even several months if necessary, it drives me nuts when I get no response to my inquires about the status of my commission. I made sure Gunmouth knew this and asked him to please reply and asked him if he could do this and he said sure.
Now, since the AC2010 drawing was close to being done, I thought he should have some news to tell me around a month after AC but he hasn't attempted to contact me or reply to my messages despite the fact that his FurAffinity account is active (he posts journals, favs artwork, replies to others comments on his FA page, etc.).
In short, the problem is that he doesn't read my FA messages and doesn't respond to them. I know he doesn't read my FA messages because FA allows you to check if they've been opened by the recipient. He never, ever checks them. I've even posted directly on the front of his FA page to get his attention and still he ignores me. If he has time to reply to comments on his FA page and fave pictures and even after almost a month since AC2010 he still hasn't replied, well, there's no excuse. It's not complicated or hard for him to reply to my asking him for an idea when an almost complete commission will be finished--in fact, it would have taken him mere seconds to reply but he didn't. That lack of responsiveness does not inspire confidence or trust.
I've been keeping track of the dates when I've messaged him since AC2010. I messaged him on July 4, July 19, July 29, July 30, and today. I've sent messages to his Furaffinity mailbox, posts on directly on his Furaffinity page, to his e-mail, MSN, ICQ, and AIM accounts, and on his Deviantart page. At first, I thought to wait two weeks each time and give him a chance to reply since he's busy but it's become apparent that he has no intention of doing so and is in fact purposely ignoring me for reasons only he knows.
Although he seemed sincere in person at Anthrocon about his intentions I can no-longer trust him because his subsequent behavior is not that of a responsible business person or human being. I see no reason why I should trust him to finish the commissions I paid him for if he willfully ignores me without explanation.
It is for this reason that today, after a month of trying contact him and waiting for a reply, I decided to ask Gunmouth for a refund. I thought it would be best since I know I'm only going to get more frustrated if I attempt to wait longer and based on my experiences with other people I think it's unlikely he's going to reform his behavior to satisfy me. So, rather than drag-on this problem I just decided to ask for a refund. I have little sympathy for people think it's alright to ignore paying customers.
Today, on his FA page and by e-mail I wrote:
"No offense but if you're not going to reply to my messages for an update I want a refund. Please send $190USD that I paid you to my PayPal account (*****@******). I've been as patient as I'm going to be. Thx.
I'm also adding you to the Livejournal artists_beware thread that I'll be updating until this is resolved. You're nice enough in person and I know you're busy but I can't work with someone who never replies. "
I think it's unfortunate that it's come to this because I'm perfectly happy to wait for him to be able to finish them (and I really do want Gunmouth to finish them) but only if he maintains a dialogue with me when I infrequently ask him how it's coming along and when he expects it will be done. Otherwise, who's to say he's not a crook who's trying to rip me off?! A person's word is only as good as their actions.
I've got commissions still ongoing from 2008 from other artists without issue and the only difference between them and Gunmouth is that they actually respond--maybe not always right away, usually within the week but certainly within a month. A healthy dialogue is important! Gunmouth, for all his artistic merit, has unfortunately failed to keep in contact with this customer. In short, as far as I can tell, he's being irresponsible at best and criminal at worst. After all, if you pay someone for a service they have a responsibility to keep you informed and reply within a reasonable time period.
Here is a list of some of his online locations though which I've attempted to communicate with him:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gunmouth/
http://gunmouth.deviantart.com/
MSN: knockemupstinky(at sign thing)hotmail.com
AIM: badvibes13
# ICQ: 4337720
E-mail: (I'm not listing it for privacy reasons)
Other places where he's online:
http://gunnmouth.livejournal.com/
http://inkbunny.net/GuNMouTH
Note: The names, links, and contact info mentioned in this post are in the public domain and found online on the internet so I have no issue listing them here.
Will be updating this thread as things progress.
[[UPDATE: August 2, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved. Link to my reply to Gunmouth's reply to my initial post: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11512295#t11512295 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 3, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved (making headway, cautiously optimistic); Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11548647#t11548647 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 6, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: resolved. Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11609831#t11609831 ]]
[[EDIT: April 5, 2011: Didn't change anything but removed my e-mail address and replaced it with *****@****. I don't like it being so easily in the public domain; should have thought of that at the time but was preoccupied.]]
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JAN 07:
SUMMARY: Gunmouth is a complex person and seems decent and friendly enough in person. His artwork is superb. However, new commissioners are advised to restrict themselves to at convention commissions only. If commissioners decide to commission him for a take-home, they certainly should only pay a small deposit upfront and the remainder only after the commission is finished. Unfortunately, Gunmouth, like some artists, is not particularly reliable when it comes to responding to commissioners via the internet. Although I think we both tried our best to work together, speaking for myself, I simply became too uncomfortable waiting and waiting and having difficulty getting replies from him. For his part, I'm guessing he became frustrated with my attention to detail for the commission--although, I though we had resolved that and I did try my best to accommodate his needs.
Unwilling to prolong my frustration, yesterday, I asked for a refund. Gunmouth thankfully replied the same day and has refunded me 4/5ths of the total, and will refund the remaining 1/5th after he has more money in his Paypal. I regret that will never have the commission completed as it looked very promising in sketch form. As I explained to Gunmouth yesterday, I simply become far to frustrated when artists delay and fail to respond to messages. I don't send them often but when I do, I don't like waiting weeks or months for replies--it just doesn't inspire confidence in the artist. It made me feel like I was being scammed and lied to or at the very least constantly being bumped to he bottom of the priority pile--despite the fact that I had paid in full already--such that it was questionable whether the art would every actually get done. Feeling my mood and confidence gradually deteriorate, I decided asking for a refund from now was the best thing I could do to prevent what might become an eventual explosion of anger on my part which of course would not help matters. So, I'm quite grateful that Gunmouth responded promptly to the refund request and I look forward to getting the refund completed. I regret we couldn't make this work.
LONGER EXPLAINATION:
One commission was still outstanding. It was supposed to be finished by Anthrocon 2011 in June but all Gunmouth had was a sketch to show me. It was enough however that I felt that progress was being made. A few months later, I contacted Gunmouth to let him know that I would be attending MFF2011 in November and that I could pick up the completed commission if he was able to get it done by then. At MFF, Gunmouth showed me the sketch and asked if there were any changes that I'd like made; he apologized for not having it finished but said he had been too busy to get to it. Having doubts as to whether he actually wanted and intended to finish my commission I asked him if he wanted to finish it or not and he said yes. He asked me if I wanted any alterations made and we made some small alterations to the sketch. I then asked him for a guess as to a rough date of completion. Gunmouth said he'd probably have something to show me around mid December. I waited until December 28th before I asked him for an update regarding the commission. Receiving no response, I tried again a week later but still no reply. Three days later, after noticing that three other commissioners had posted shouts on Gunmouth's FA asking for updates for their commissions and complaining about the lack of communication, I finally had enough and sent Gunmouth a request for a refund. The same day Gunmouth refunded 4/5ths of the money paid to my Paypal and messaged me saying he'll send the rest when he has more money is his Paypal. So, for the moment things are alright.
However, I am disappointed that I wont be getting that commission from Gunmouth. The sketch as looking promising and we seemed to be getting a long well enough--although I know better than to say we were friends. Although Gunmouth has been better at communicating with me since the opening of this thread over a year ago, there have been a few occasions where he simply did not reply at all.
Essentially, it's the combination of waiting so long but especially the spotty communication that caused me to decide to ask for a refund. As I explained to Gunmouth, I find it much too frustrating and time consuming to have to constantly pursue artists when they don't answer or deliver on time. Compared to some other artists I've commissioned, Gunmouth has not been particularly communicative online and so I didn't have what I felt was a healthy rapport with him.
At MFF, trying to take Gunmouth's needs into consideration, I told him that I'd be alright waiting for the commission to be finished by Anthrocon 2012 if he couldn't complete it by December. However, as I have explained to him previously, my waiting is contingent upon the artist replying to messages. As a commissioner I simply got to the point where I questioned if the commission would ever be completed. Although my dealings with Gunmouth have revealed that he can be a pretty decent person with interesting perspectives and useful advice, I simply don't know him well enough trust him to finish it given the way things have been going.
So, that is the state of affairs. Prospective commissioners should feel free to commission him but just be cautious and I think everyone will be happier if commissioners limit themselves to at-con commissions only.
Gunmouth, if you end up reading this update, I want you to know I appreciate you trying to work with me but I think we both agree it wasn't working and that my asking for a refund was the best thing. I know now I wasn't a perfect commissioner initially--with respect to giving too much detail with the commission--but I have listened to you and other artists and have made things simpler and shorter and I continue to work on things. It has been a learning experience I think for both of us. I'm glad at least that even if we can't get the commission finished that at least we can end on a semi-positive note.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 FEB 10]]
Got rest of refund about a week ago.
Not sure if Gunmouth was reading my messages or only their titles.
Offered to let him keep the rest of the refund in exchange for the incomplete drawing (the existing sketch version) since it seemed the most mutually beneficial and he said he needed money. However, Gunmouth did not respond to that which is fine if disappointing.
He is really a poor communicator. Trying to contact him is like pulling teeth.
I think he was just frustrated with the level of detail I wanted. I tried my best to work with him and even asked him at MFF2011 if he wanted to do the drawing or not with no hard feelings either way.
At-con commissions are probably ok but would not recommend him for take homes.
Things could have ended on a better note but at least we didn't argue.
Situation is now fully resolved and closed.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JUN @ Anthrocon ]]
Spoke with Gunmouth in person. Wanted to try and patch things up as I felt we hadn't ended on the best of terms. I think we are both happier for the attempt. We talked about a few things and Gunmouth mentioned that the reason he hadn't finished my commission is that he realized that he doesn't like drawing hyper characters. Every time he tried to work on it he ended up working on something else. I also asked him why he wasn't always replying to my messages. He said his working style is more results oriented and that he prefers to only contact people when he has something to show them. So, our conversation all-in-all was positive. I asked Gunmouth about the possibility of paying him $20 to get the sketch he's already done and he said I could contact him prior to my next convention and he will bring the sketch so I can pay to get it. However, due to the fact that he doesn't enjoy drawing hypers (which I said I totally understand) and our disparate working styles (ie. concerning our views on online communication) I haven't any plans to commission Gunmouth again or to resume my uncompleted commission. So, all-in-all, I think we patched things up so that we both feel at ease.
I commissioned him at Anthrocon and he owes me two commissions which I paid for in full and one of which I have yet to give him details for (which was commissioned prior to this year's Anthrocon).
Since Anthrocon 2010, I've been contact Gunmouth to remind him about my commission from Anthrocon 2010 and ask him when he thought he might finish it. I just wanted to know when he thought he'd have it done. That way, I could just wait until then rather then messaging him every month or so. Indeed, the AC2010 commission was supposed to be finished at Anthrocon he wasn't able to get it done in time. The rough draft of the drawing was nearly complete but he had to trace it on good paper and ink it. I said, sure, no problem; I'd rather be patient and have you do it right than rush to get it done at the con. If you want to take it come and are ok with that then I'm fine with that to.
Since I've had problems communicating with him in the past prior to AC2010, I made sure to tell him that while I'm fine with being patient, even several months if necessary, it drives me nuts when I get no response to my inquires about the status of my commission. I made sure Gunmouth knew this and asked him to please reply and asked him if he could do this and he said sure.
Now, since the AC2010 drawing was close to being done, I thought he should have some news to tell me around a month after AC but he hasn't attempted to contact me or reply to my messages despite the fact that his FurAffinity account is active (he posts journals, favs artwork, replies to others comments on his FA page, etc.).
In short, the problem is that he doesn't read my FA messages and doesn't respond to them. I know he doesn't read my FA messages because FA allows you to check if they've been opened by the recipient. He never, ever checks them. I've even posted directly on the front of his FA page to get his attention and still he ignores me. If he has time to reply to comments on his FA page and fave pictures and even after almost a month since AC2010 he still hasn't replied, well, there's no excuse. It's not complicated or hard for him to reply to my asking him for an idea when an almost complete commission will be finished--in fact, it would have taken him mere seconds to reply but he didn't. That lack of responsiveness does not inspire confidence or trust.
I've been keeping track of the dates when I've messaged him since AC2010. I messaged him on July 4, July 19, July 29, July 30, and today. I've sent messages to his Furaffinity mailbox, posts on directly on his Furaffinity page, to his e-mail, MSN, ICQ, and AIM accounts, and on his Deviantart page. At first, I thought to wait two weeks each time and give him a chance to reply since he's busy but it's become apparent that he has no intention of doing so and is in fact purposely ignoring me for reasons only he knows.
Although he seemed sincere in person at Anthrocon about his intentions I can no-longer trust him because his subsequent behavior is not that of a responsible business person or human being. I see no reason why I should trust him to finish the commissions I paid him for if he willfully ignores me without explanation.
It is for this reason that today, after a month of trying contact him and waiting for a reply, I decided to ask Gunmouth for a refund. I thought it would be best since I know I'm only going to get more frustrated if I attempt to wait longer and based on my experiences with other people I think it's unlikely he's going to reform his behavior to satisfy me. So, rather than drag-on this problem I just decided to ask for a refund. I have little sympathy for people think it's alright to ignore paying customers.
Today, on his FA page and by e-mail I wrote:
"No offense but if you're not going to reply to my messages for an update I want a refund. Please send $190USD that I paid you to my PayPal account (*****@******). I've been as patient as I'm going to be. Thx.
I'm also adding you to the Livejournal artists_beware thread that I'll be updating until this is resolved. You're nice enough in person and I know you're busy but I can't work with someone who never replies. "
I think it's unfortunate that it's come to this because I'm perfectly happy to wait for him to be able to finish them (and I really do want Gunmouth to finish them) but only if he maintains a dialogue with me when I infrequently ask him how it's coming along and when he expects it will be done. Otherwise, who's to say he's not a crook who's trying to rip me off?! A person's word is only as good as their actions.
I've got commissions still ongoing from 2008 from other artists without issue and the only difference between them and Gunmouth is that they actually respond--maybe not always right away, usually within the week but certainly within a month. A healthy dialogue is important! Gunmouth, for all his artistic merit, has unfortunately failed to keep in contact with this customer. In short, as far as I can tell, he's being irresponsible at best and criminal at worst. After all, if you pay someone for a service they have a responsibility to keep you informed and reply within a reasonable time period.
Here is a list of some of his online locations though which I've attempted to communicate with him:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gunmouth/
http://gunmouth.deviantart.com/
MSN: knockemupstinky(at sign thing)hotmail.com
AIM: badvibes13
# ICQ: 4337720
E-mail: (I'm not listing it for privacy reasons)
Other places where he's online:
http://gunnmouth.livejournal.com/
http://inkbunny.net/GuNMouTH
Note: The names, links, and contact info mentioned in this post are in the public domain and found online on the internet so I have no issue listing them here.
Will be updating this thread as things progress.
[[UPDATE: August 2, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved. Link to my reply to Gunmouth's reply to my initial post: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11512295#t11512295 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 3, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved (making headway, cautiously optimistic); Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11548647#t11548647 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 6, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: resolved. Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11609831#t11609831 ]]
[[EDIT: April 5, 2011: Didn't change anything but removed my e-mail address and replaced it with *****@****. I don't like it being so easily in the public domain; should have thought of that at the time but was preoccupied.]]
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JAN 07:
SUMMARY: Gunmouth is a complex person and seems decent and friendly enough in person. His artwork is superb. However, new commissioners are advised to restrict themselves to at convention commissions only. If commissioners decide to commission him for a take-home, they certainly should only pay a small deposit upfront and the remainder only after the commission is finished. Unfortunately, Gunmouth, like some artists, is not particularly reliable when it comes to responding to commissioners via the internet. Although I think we both tried our best to work together, speaking for myself, I simply became too uncomfortable waiting and waiting and having difficulty getting replies from him. For his part, I'm guessing he became frustrated with my attention to detail for the commission--although, I though we had resolved that and I did try my best to accommodate his needs.
Unwilling to prolong my frustration, yesterday, I asked for a refund. Gunmouth thankfully replied the same day and has refunded me 4/5ths of the total, and will refund the remaining 1/5th after he has more money in his Paypal. I regret that will never have the commission completed as it looked very promising in sketch form. As I explained to Gunmouth yesterday, I simply become far to frustrated when artists delay and fail to respond to messages. I don't send them often but when I do, I don't like waiting weeks or months for replies--it just doesn't inspire confidence in the artist. It made me feel like I was being scammed and lied to or at the very least constantly being bumped to he bottom of the priority pile--despite the fact that I had paid in full already--such that it was questionable whether the art would every actually get done. Feeling my mood and confidence gradually deteriorate, I decided asking for a refund from now was the best thing I could do to prevent what might become an eventual explosion of anger on my part which of course would not help matters. So, I'm quite grateful that Gunmouth responded promptly to the refund request and I look forward to getting the refund completed. I regret we couldn't make this work.
LONGER EXPLAINATION:
One commission was still outstanding. It was supposed to be finished by Anthrocon 2011 in June but all Gunmouth had was a sketch to show me. It was enough however that I felt that progress was being made. A few months later, I contacted Gunmouth to let him know that I would be attending MFF2011 in November and that I could pick up the completed commission if he was able to get it done by then. At MFF, Gunmouth showed me the sketch and asked if there were any changes that I'd like made; he apologized for not having it finished but said he had been too busy to get to it. Having doubts as to whether he actually wanted and intended to finish my commission I asked him if he wanted to finish it or not and he said yes. He asked me if I wanted any alterations made and we made some small alterations to the sketch. I then asked him for a guess as to a rough date of completion. Gunmouth said he'd probably have something to show me around mid December. I waited until December 28th before I asked him for an update regarding the commission. Receiving no response, I tried again a week later but still no reply. Three days later, after noticing that three other commissioners had posted shouts on Gunmouth's FA asking for updates for their commissions and complaining about the lack of communication, I finally had enough and sent Gunmouth a request for a refund. The same day Gunmouth refunded 4/5ths of the money paid to my Paypal and messaged me saying he'll send the rest when he has more money is his Paypal. So, for the moment things are alright.
However, I am disappointed that I wont be getting that commission from Gunmouth. The sketch as looking promising and we seemed to be getting a long well enough--although I know better than to say we were friends. Although Gunmouth has been better at communicating with me since the opening of this thread over a year ago, there have been a few occasions where he simply did not reply at all.
Essentially, it's the combination of waiting so long but especially the spotty communication that caused me to decide to ask for a refund. As I explained to Gunmouth, I find it much too frustrating and time consuming to have to constantly pursue artists when they don't answer or deliver on time. Compared to some other artists I've commissioned, Gunmouth has not been particularly communicative online and so I didn't have what I felt was a healthy rapport with him.
At MFF, trying to take Gunmouth's needs into consideration, I told him that I'd be alright waiting for the commission to be finished by Anthrocon 2012 if he couldn't complete it by December. However, as I have explained to him previously, my waiting is contingent upon the artist replying to messages. As a commissioner I simply got to the point where I questioned if the commission would ever be completed. Although my dealings with Gunmouth have revealed that he can be a pretty decent person with interesting perspectives and useful advice, I simply don't know him well enough trust him to finish it given the way things have been going.
So, that is the state of affairs. Prospective commissioners should feel free to commission him but just be cautious and I think everyone will be happier if commissioners limit themselves to at-con commissions only.
Gunmouth, if you end up reading this update, I want you to know I appreciate you trying to work with me but I think we both agree it wasn't working and that my asking for a refund was the best thing. I know now I wasn't a perfect commissioner initially--with respect to giving too much detail with the commission--but I have listened to you and other artists and have made things simpler and shorter and I continue to work on things. It has been a learning experience I think for both of us. I'm glad at least that even if we can't get the commission finished that at least we can end on a semi-positive note.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 FEB 10]]
Got rest of refund about a week ago.
Not sure if Gunmouth was reading my messages or only their titles.
Offered to let him keep the rest of the refund in exchange for the incomplete drawing (the existing sketch version) since it seemed the most mutually beneficial and he said he needed money. However, Gunmouth did not respond to that which is fine if disappointing.
He is really a poor communicator. Trying to contact him is like pulling teeth.
I think he was just frustrated with the level of detail I wanted. I tried my best to work with him and even asked him at MFF2011 if he wanted to do the drawing or not with no hard feelings either way.
At-con commissions are probably ok but would not recommend him for take homes.
Things could have ended on a better note but at least we didn't argue.
Situation is now fully resolved and closed.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JUN @ Anthrocon ]]
Spoke with Gunmouth in person. Wanted to try and patch things up as I felt we hadn't ended on the best of terms. I think we are both happier for the attempt. We talked about a few things and Gunmouth mentioned that the reason he hadn't finished my commission is that he realized that he doesn't like drawing hyper characters. Every time he tried to work on it he ended up working on something else. I also asked him why he wasn't always replying to my messages. He said his working style is more results oriented and that he prefers to only contact people when he has something to show them. So, our conversation all-in-all was positive. I asked Gunmouth about the possibility of paying him $20 to get the sketch he's already done and he said I could contact him prior to my next convention and he will bring the sketch so I can pay to get it. However, due to the fact that he doesn't enjoy drawing hypers (which I said I totally understand) and our disparate working styles (ie. concerning our views on online communication) I haven't any plans to commission Gunmouth again or to resume my uncompleted commission. So, all-in-all, I think we patched things up so that we both feel at ease.
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Featherdragon then took his sweet time, flipping through his reference compendium, and pointing out each and every obsessive detail to Kami. Once he was done, we thought he would just walk away and come back a few hours later, but no...
***He knelt over our table with his arms RESTING ON TOP OF OUR MERCHANDISE, and proceeded to watch Kami as she drew, CONSTANTLY CORRECTING HER OVER EVERY MINUTE DETAIL... for literally HOURS. No joke... HE WAS THERE FOR HOURS... BLOCKING CUSTOMERS, AND COVERING OUR MERCHANDISE. He would not leave and let her work in peace... People were even asking us who "the guy camping at our table" was.***
Evenually, Featherdragon walked off... only to come back and repeat his correcting every fifteen minutes. HE EVEN WENT OUT OF HIS WAY TO TELL KAMI SHE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DRAW BOOBS PROPERLY, AND PROCEEDED TO ATTEMPT TO "TEACH HER" HOW TO DO IT RIGHT. At this, Kami finally stopped doing his commission, and that pretty much ended it.
After that con, I wanted to blacklist Featherdragon... but we did not. Instead, Anthrocon came along, and we took his commissions, due to the fact that our main selling item for the con did not make it, and we had to compensate the best we could.
AGAIN came the reference compendium, along with all the excessive verbal details that just HAD to be mentioned... Regardless, we sketched up example pieces for him to approve. He approved them... then as the day went by, he would stop by every 30 minutes, asking for small changes.
***THIS IS WHY I IGNORED HIM... THE CHANGES...*** After the con was over, I just wanted to get his picture DONE so that I wouldn't have to deal with MORE AND MORE CHANGES.
THIS WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA... I admit... but one of my greatest pet peeves is having finished a picture, then having to make changes.... which are later changed again... and again.. and AGAIN. I would much rather just FINISH IT, and get it done with as few changes as possible.
Featherdragon, I wronged you by ignoring you, and for that I apologize... but to be honest with you, in regards to your personal characters at the last couple of conventions, you are one of THE most difficult customers I have EVER dealt with...
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I've gotten a few weird clients too, but damn, man, if you knew this guy was bad news in the first place based on his at-con behavior, you shouldn't have taken the order.
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I just figured I would give him a second chance. I take it easy through most things (probably another reason I am so slow), and we needed to make $3000 at AC (which we did not do), so when he came up and asked BOTH of us for art, I figured why the hell not.
We had already taken a huge blow at that con when it was announced the day before the con that our books-- which were promised to us-- had not been printed... AT ALL. I did not want to add to that stress, so I just took the commissions.
Regardless, his commission is almost done...
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Even if ever did ask you for a commission in the future, why not just explain your terms like "less than ten sentences description and three reference pictures max". Seems to me your jumping the gun based on one persons overly hostile and somewhat exaggerated account of events.
All you really know for sure is that I'm detail oriented and like to talk a lot about the commission and that I don't like it when artists take a month to respond to messages.
I don't agree with Gunmouth that I'm a difficult and hard commissioner. The only thing that can be called difficult about me is I like details and I have problems condensing information sometimes. But, it's not the kind of "difficult" that is a person who's mean and doesn't try to work with and listen to artists, it's just that I'm different than you are. You like short and sweet, I like more talk and more details. There's no reason why can't meet in the middle if we both know what the other's wants and needs are.
Please don't judge me too harshly until you've actually gotten to know and/or work with me.
You're call though.
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The plan was to write down all the details of Feather's commission, and only do the sketch if I had time. At AC, he didn't hover over our table like he did at MFM, so I figured I would cut the guy a break and do his image. He was also like... #4 on my list, and I had no idea if I would get any more commissions or not... so I sketched it out.
He's a nice guy... just overly meticulous about his commissions. Some people get that way over fetish/fantasy art... He needs to find a different method/approach, I suppose...
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I just figure people will be honest and tell me when they think something I'm doing is problematic. I don't try and do stuff on purpose so if it happens I am totally oblivious. People just need to talk to me sometimes to fill in the gaps.
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Again, sorry for lack of communication. I thought I would let the work do the talking, but when that work never came, I should have said something...
I'll have your pic done ASAP. :)
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I could then crop-out a lot of stuff to make it really brief or decide I don't want to go ahead.
Or, like you said, the artist can just say 'no'.
I know that if things work out with me and Gunmouth that if he or Kami were ever willing to do another commission for me again, I'd make sure to be **alot** more brief know that I know how they like (and need) to work, and to spend much less time at their table. Of course, people reading this can either choose to believe me or not but that's the truth. I like their art and I think their ok people in person; I can see myself wanting more of their art in the future. I wouldn't want to never be able to commission them again. However, I can see that Gunmouth at least (not sure about Kami) feels really unhappy over the way I've done things so I wouldn't hold it against him if he or Kami didn't want to take on commissions from me at future conventions. I'd just think it'd be unfortunate and sad but I'd completely understand. I know if I were Gunmouth and I felt so strongly against someone I wouldn't want to deal with them either, so I can hardly begrudge him if it comes to that.
Engage: TL;DR response
If he was grating your nerves that much, then refund him and take away a valuable lesson. Or better yet, don't take the commission in the first place. A business in art sucks, people get irritating customers all the time. I do, I've gotten customers I've wanted to slap in the face with my keyboard. But that's the catch with art. And you have two options. A, put on a smile, do the work, and get them out of your hair. B, refund them and get them out of your hair.
But I find this whole addition VERY unprofessional. You're playing the blame game and trying to make the commissioner seem more horrible than you and frankly, it's childish. I don't like the idea that if I complain about an artist COMPLETELY IGNORING ME that the artist will turn around, dig up dirt, and go "BUT YOU DID THIIIIIISSSS THEY'RE THE BAD GUY."
If they were such a difficult customer, make an entry. But you just look like you're trying to pass off responsibility.
Re: Engage: TL;DR response
This situation hasn't been grating on my nerves as much as you may think. The stuff that happened at AC wasn't as bad as it was at MFM, which is WHY I took this commission in the first place.
All I'm doing is telling my side of the story, before people start thinkin' that I simply did not care for a poor, innocent commissioner's needs.
I COULD have made a post about him, but I figured I'd just put it here where it had relevance. Shoulda, coulda, woulda, but didn't-- doesn't matter. His commission is getting done, just as it always was, and I've already taken care of it. All that matters.
Re: Engage: TL;DR response
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I was relatively new to commissions and was so scared of having a displeased customer that I didn't argue. It wasn't until TK_Bull who I was chatting with at the time stood up and told him that he got what he asked for. It was in the wee hours of the morning, and Feathered did apologize to me for it the next morning, and thanked me for the badge so I'm not angry about it now or anything but I do remember it. I don't think the artist here is lying at all.
Now that I know better, I would have refunded when I realized I couldn't give the commissioner what he wanted. I might work with feathered again in the future, he is a nice enough guy, I'm pretty sure you just need to establish what you will and won't do, revisions etc and ask for space.
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It took me awhile to remember who you were because at first, I could not remember either your name or the event.
First, thank you for the badge. I think it's one of my most unique badges and is such is cool. :3
Secondly, let me clarify for readers what happened because I was really confused when I first read your account and didn't even remember anything like this happening.
As I remember it, Stormlegacy and TK_Bull were hanging out and arting on the floor in he Westin Hotel common room(2nd floor). It was past midnight and all three of us were up late. I decided I wanted to ask both for commissions so I did. If I commissioned Stormlegacy inside the artist room the previous day, I don't recall.
Now Stormlegacy's speciality, if I remember right, was that she drew cervices (ie. deer/cow-like creatures) and I remember her saying that she hadn't much practice drawing dragons. We spent a few hours just hanging out and talking while she and TK_Bull were drawing for me. It wasn't like there were lineups or traffic there in the common room that late at night. So, anyway, I got to see the badge as she was drawing it and I thought we were just having a friendly back-and-forth conversation about how my badge looked as she was drawing it. I was just giving constructive criticism. Her art was not bad at all but my character looked more like a cow-anthro than a dragon before I pointed out how she could fix the jaw-line. TK_Bull, the more experienced artist was also giving advice to Stormlegacy which like mine she didn't seem to mind either. I wasn't anything like "Oh, your art sucks and you need to this and this, blah blah blah", I was like "Oh, see, here if you bring the jawbone down a bit it will look more like a dragon". I remember the night being a very relaxed, and friendly night. I vaguely remember TK_Bull saying "you asked what you paid for" but when he said that he was very friendly and I interpreted his comment as 'well, that's her style so you shouldn't be surprised if your badge looks like that'. Stormlegacy, when you say "it wasn't until TK_Bull stood up and told him he got what he asked for", you make it sound like a confrontation which it wasn't at all. I don't remember him standing up but even if he did, I there was nothing that happened that night that I would have called confrontational or even close. Obviously we view the world in very different ways. Really, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad at all. So, I'm terribly sorry that I made you feel this way. And, I do like your badge.
[Post continued . . .]
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You're right, it would help me a lot if artists establish what they will and wont do. One thing I'm realizing now from reading Gunmouth's and other's comments is that I'm apparently making artists feel bad when I suggest changes to their artwork-in-progress. So, for the record, let me be absolutely clear: All of you, you're work is excellent; any criticism or perceived criticism is not ever in any way meant to suggest that you are no-good as an artist or can draw stuff right. I am a very particular human being when it comes to liking some details a certain way so when I say "I'd like this changed to this" or "can you fix this so that, etc." I'm only trying to tweak the drawing so it looks better to me or more in line with what I wanted. But never, ever, should any of you think that I don't think you can do your jobs right. I just want to be involved in the drawing to some extent; that doesn't just stop when I tell you what I want; for complex drawings there's usually an in-between stage where artists show me what they've done so far and I make suggestions--and I take them up on it and make suggestions. Don't take it so personally! There's a difference between being particular and being rude or snobbish, etc.. If you don't want people commenting as much, just be more specific at the honest about what they can and shouldn't do.
Stormlegacy, as you know I like dragons. So, I have had some experience in observing their artistic form and drawing them. You said yourself that dragons weren't your specialty. I just that you'd appreciate some helpful suggestions.
Really artists, don't take it personally. If I thought you guys couldn't draw and I didn't like your work I would never ask you to draw something for me in the first place.
I hope this helps clear things up a bit. :3
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It was intimidating and I only meant that I understood what the artist was saying, because it seemed like a poster was accusing them of lying. It can come off as different things to different people--honestly, as an artist one needs to be able to say when they need space or when critique is encouraged. You have some very good tips but can come off as strong, ya know? I hope I didn't offend by responding. =3 I meant only to say that I see how the artist could see it that way, *not* in that they had any right to ignore you.
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Honestly, I had no idea you thought so badly of me. I'm sorry to have evidently caused you grief. Please though, realize that I'm not a mind reader. If you only would have explained this to me before I think that would have helped alot.
Gunmouth, being detail oriented is just one of my personality traits but I've never tried to wrong anyone and I do listen to people if they have issue with me.
Of course, you to express yourself intelligently instead of assuming I'll just somehow understand without having any idea that you felt this way.
I'm sorry you feel I've been one of the most difficult people you've ever had to work with. I hate to think what you would have thought if I was someone who didn't try to get along with people and was selfish, conceited, etc..
I think in end this is just a giant misunderstanding. I stand my by conviction that neither of us would have had problems had you just told me how you feel. At least you're doing that now but if I may say so you seem overly hostile and seem to cast me in a rather antagonistic way. Really, I'm a good person; I never would have done things that would bother you if I knew that this was happening.
Thanks for your apology for not contacting me and now that I know what your grievances are, let me give you my sincere apology. I really never thought there was any problem here--that's the honest truth.