New "free art" website

[shirikdraguinea.livejournal.com]

IMPORTANT EDIT
Just had this comment via FA from one of my watchers:
Major alert - shortly after following that link, my google account has been hijacked and has been mass spammng. I have d/c'ed from the internet (using phone atm), and am virus scanning. Be VERY careful, or avoid altogether.
If anyone thinks they got something nasty I'm really sorry - try running HouseCall ( http://housecall.trendmicro.com/ ) - its an online based virus scanner so it can't be affected by anything on your system. I had no negative consequences from visiting this website but some others have - if you have been affected I am incredibly sorry :(


A friend of mine recently alerted me to yet another art theft rich art site - Never To Much Yiff. You can see it advertised at the owners FurAffinity page and he states:

"You can download and archive of 11,745 sorted by artist. I am not selling it is free to download so enjoy and please donate 2$ every 5$ goes to animal shelter of my choice"
(I took some liberty with this quote... the typos on the picture made me cry).

So in a nutshell, this person Techie9098 is putting up work by other artists without permission, and charging "donation" for them. I haven't checked the artists affected by this though as it requires downloading a torrent with all of these files.

Just a heads up for people.

EDIT:

His main page has been replaced by a Caramelldansen video but the download link remains and the torrent is still on pirate bay.

Comments

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

If they profit because they are selling it, but you were never selling it, in what way is that a loss of income?

[keaalu.livejournal.com]

So let me get this straight; you labour for hours to produce a piece of artwork to share with the world, and just because you haven't elected to sell it yourself, you'd be fine with someone else taking that piece of art, and profiting (possibly significantly) off your hours of labour? (And that's ignoring all the supplies you've used to create it.)

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

It's not that I'm saying its good or its okay to do that, im just saying that if I was never going to profit, then I'm not loosing profit when someone else does it. Is that not sound logic? Sure there may be other factors that make that behaviour wrong, but it's not enough to just say something is wrong without thinking about WHY. I hope that's understandable.

[glowstick-juice.livejournal.com]

I don't plan on selling my car, but that doesn't mean it's okay for you to steal it.
"Oh, but Officer, she wasn't trying to make any profit off the car so what did I do wrong?"

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

That would be true, if one could compare intellectual to tangible property in that way. If you have a car that can be made into an unlimited number of copies, could you still make the argument that you were missing something if one was taken? That's kind of the crux of what I'm getting at here. I apologize if I've come off soundly badly. I don't think people should do things to harm others, or their ability to produce artwork, but when a behaviour falls outside of causing harm, I think it's good to question what should be done.

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

I may only know you from words you've written through this community, but you don't strike me as the type to do something like that. I don't think it would help either, since you'd just be becoming the thing you're arguing against, no?

Now, up there I stated that I don't think people SHOULD go around doing this, in fact, I think they probably should not, and should find other ways to make money, but honestly, if I make a list of the pros and cons for the situation of YOU selling MY work, it doesn't come out as bad as all that. I'm not currently selling my work, so I'm literally not loosing money. I may not like that you did it without permission, but your lack of permission may very well result in either no detriment to me, or an increase in traffic, attention, comments, etc. It may even show me that people are willing to buy my stuff (I doubt it lol) and inspire me to start selling it myself. Why am I so wrong for just thinking about the issue in this way, instead of being cliche and getting up in arms and thinking that the law is the best protector of IP?

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

Where did I say that? I think the opposite is true.

My apologies if I made one spelling error in all the responses I've given tonight after a long day at work. I also don't know where you're getting that I ever said I was an expert. I am no expert. None at all. I just happen to read and study the subject both formally and informally and like to keep up with current events regarding IP.

The fact is, I know my views are complex, but I really am not saying it's okay, people shouldn't do it, but if they do, maybe we should consider each case individually and use different factors to determine what exactly makes it wrong, before we jump on the bandwagon. It's the bandwagon-ing and the use of law to enforce IP rights that worries me. Am I wrong to be worried?

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

"You are acting as though your opinions are fact, so I am going to assume that you fancy yourself an expert."

...by assuming such...don't you just make your opinions out to be fact, which you in the same breath accuse me of doing?

I agree with your last point. I think in this particular case, this person probably has wronged at least some of the artists who's work was posted. I just dislike it when people blindly say 'it's wrong' without really understanding why they think that. I also worry about the future of copyright and that things we enjoy today (like LJ icons) might be prohibited in the near future.

I am sorry this has gotten so out of hand. I'm not trying to make enemies. I rather like and respect the vast majority of people on this board. I am sorry if I've caused you or anyone else upset. I just don't think it's bad to have a different opinion. After all, if we have come this far and you've considered my words and I've still failed to convince you, then that just means that your own opinions have been further strengthened :)

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

So it would be okay to show up at a public art gallery, take all the work without price tags, and sell the art and prints elsewhere because the artist didn't put it up for sale anyway?

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

I never said it was okay, only that we need to think about WHY its wrong and maybe factor in other considerations. When you were a kid, did you ever see something that to this day still inspires you? Did you need to know that the creator authorized you to look at it to be inspired? Probably not. There is a benefit in works being distributed. Does it necessarily outweigh the creator's rights? certainly not, but I just don't think its wise to immediately get angry and shout 'LAWSUIT! DMCA! MINE MINE MINE', instead of looking at the situation as a whole. Is that really so awful of me?

[lurkerwisp.livejournal.com]

Yeah it's pretty despicable to take something that the creator made freely viewable and charge money for it. That thinking actually is pretty awful of you.

That's taking all the free condiments and setting up a booth outside the restaurant to charge money for them. The restaurant has the right to stop you from selling them, and to call the cops to chase you off when you steal piles of them - even if you're just rearranging their display so the box is outside the restaurant. On top of being theft it's morally very wrong.

When I was a kid I visited Europe with my family. In a Belgian city we came across a statue of an angel with wings stretched out along the walls of the building it stood at the corner of. To this day it has inspired me to desire to create public art for the purpose of beautifying public space - not because someone charged admission to the street, but because the artist wanted to do nothing more than create a work of beauty for the public. Nobody has the right to take what the artist made public and earn individual profit from it.

Similarly, as an artist I have also been inspired to create art which is private and personal - or to create art for someone else with the same effect. Nobody has the right to invade my private expressions of emotion and creativity that are not shared publicly and gain profit from it.

Paid work is even more of a violation - as it really does steal income from the artist.

Public work, private work, and commission work all have their own compounding reasons for the rights of the creator to necessarily outweigh the benefit of works being distributed against the creator's will. That is looking at the situation as a whole, and there aren't other considerations to discuss.

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

Your example isn't exactly on point (for one thing, restaurants include charges for condiments and such in the amount they charge) because IP is not like tangible property. If IP is condiments, then its a magic bottle that can never be used up.

"Nobody has the right to take what the artist made public and earn individual profit from it." I think thats a nice story (I mean that honestly :) ) but there are a lot of instances where such things do happen, let's just consider the public domain. Even if the artist was totally against it, once they are gone and their work enters into the PD, then it can be turned into a profit. The thing I'm concerned about is that how long it takes something to enter the PD, as it is ever changing and pretty arbitrary. I bring this up because how can we say that something is legally (morally, maybe not so much, some people might still respect the artist's wishes) wrong during the 69th year after the artist's death, and then magically it's okay in the 70th? In commenting on this thread at all, I'm just trying to point out that its a complicated situation that is not black and white.

" Nobody has the right to invade my private expressions of emotion and creativity that are not shared publicly and gain profit from it." I agree, but putting things on the internet is considered publicizing it. SHOULD someone take it? no. but you don't have the legal right to stop any particular person from looking at it, right? Beyond looking, what they can do with your works is the subject of this debate.

"Paid work is even more of a violation - as it really does steal income from the artist." I agree. You say 'more' of a violation, meaning that if not for this factor, maybe the situation wouldn't be as bad...I don't think we actually disagree all that much on the issue as a whole. Perhaps I just went too broad with my arguments from the start.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Uh...The images in the pack were images I WERE selling. What then? The images included are Hardblush.com images as well, images I was paid for, paid to do, images that are paid to be seen and he ripped and is spreading them.

The moment a donation aspect comes into play, is the moment where he's committing a crime. I could care less if he was just sharing FA art (with proper names, credits and watermarking) but sharing it in a bundle with paysite art then asking for money is wrong. This has nothing to do with IP or whatever.

[animehoneybee.livejournal.com]

AS I've stated before, I think that someone SHOULD NOT, and is WRONG, for selling something to the DETRIMENT of the creator. So, I agree with you, but that should be something we consider before we immediately get up in arms. If someone looses no money, as in, someone else sells something they really had no intention of selling themselves, is it still wrong? I think you might answer that it is, and I can totally accept that, even if I don't agree, but it seems like I'm not being allowed to ask the question without being accused of thievery or insincerity myself.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Also, how DO YOU KNOW they weren't selling that art? Plenty of artists make prints out of their galleries, but don't openly discuss it. I sure don't. SO how would you even know whats being sold amongst those 11,000+ images?

You may wanna backpeddle a bit there, you're making it very hard not to resort to frustrated name-calling.

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

I think Gabe's idea has merit in place of name-calling: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/8/1/tender-human-trachea/

[lilenth.livejournal.com]

So according to you, not exercising a right means it's okay for someone to take that right for themselves. So if I have a pool but am not swimming in it, that means it's okay for others to come swim in it does it? I mean it's only trespassing after all.

You don't understand the concept of harm it seems, let's break out the examples you've overlooked in your myopia, if artist's don't protect their work or have the right to protect it removed from them, these can happen:

Brand damage:

The work gets associated with something that is harmful to the artist's reputation or which reduces the work's value.

Artist reputation dilution:

Loss of income because companies don't want to hire an artist who would turn a blind eye to the reuse of work for hire/personal work being reused in a manner the customer might not appreciate.

I'm sure a great many people wouldn't want to hire an artist who would ignore someone posting the result on a site that say promotes racism.

If the right to prevent it being taken is removed, you get more cases of private work, where work will specifically not be shared at all by artists because they wouldn't want someone stealing their customers work, which again REDUCES the creativity available to inspire.

Failure to protect:

Artist's lose their work after an unscrupulous individual sues them because he's selling their work and their sales of it interfere with his money making which they haven't stopped.

I could go on but if you don't get the picture by now, you never will, losses is more than just simple money losses ergo can you kindly stop talking nonsense now because you're really starting to aggravate those of us who have done our research and who are offended at your attempts to insist that OUR rights should be given away, go slap creative commons crap on YOUR work if you believe that rights shouldn't belong to artists, put YOUR work in public domain if you support this, but don't tell US what WE can do with OUR work!