Gunmouth (aka. Matt Burt)
Jul. 31st, 2010 07:29 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png)
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I will be updating this thread as circumstances progress. As of right now, I regret to say that people should not commission Gunmouth. Please read below to see why.
I commissioned him at Anthrocon and he owes me two commissions which I paid for in full and one of which I have yet to give him details for (which was commissioned prior to this year's Anthrocon).
Since Anthrocon 2010, I've been contact Gunmouth to remind him about my commission from Anthrocon 2010 and ask him when he thought he might finish it. I just wanted to know when he thought he'd have it done. That way, I could just wait until then rather then messaging him every month or so. Indeed, the AC2010 commission was supposed to be finished at Anthrocon he wasn't able to get it done in time. The rough draft of the drawing was nearly complete but he had to trace it on good paper and ink it. I said, sure, no problem; I'd rather be patient and have you do it right than rush to get it done at the con. If you want to take it come and are ok with that then I'm fine with that to.
Since I've had problems communicating with him in the past prior to AC2010, I made sure to tell him that while I'm fine with being patient, even several months if necessary, it drives me nuts when I get no response to my inquires about the status of my commission. I made sure Gunmouth knew this and asked him to please reply and asked him if he could do this and he said sure.
Now, since the AC2010 drawing was close to being done, I thought he should have some news to tell me around a month after AC but he hasn't attempted to contact me or reply to my messages despite the fact that his FurAffinity account is active (he posts journals, favs artwork, replies to others comments on his FA page, etc.).
In short, the problem is that he doesn't read my FA messages and doesn't respond to them. I know he doesn't read my FA messages because FA allows you to check if they've been opened by the recipient. He never, ever checks them. I've even posted directly on the front of his FA page to get his attention and still he ignores me. If he has time to reply to comments on his FA page and fave pictures and even after almost a month since AC2010 he still hasn't replied, well, there's no excuse. It's not complicated or hard for him to reply to my asking him for an idea when an almost complete commission will be finished--in fact, it would have taken him mere seconds to reply but he didn't. That lack of responsiveness does not inspire confidence or trust.
I've been keeping track of the dates when I've messaged him since AC2010. I messaged him on July 4, July 19, July 29, July 30, and today. I've sent messages to his Furaffinity mailbox, posts on directly on his Furaffinity page, to his e-mail, MSN, ICQ, and AIM accounts, and on his Deviantart page. At first, I thought to wait two weeks each time and give him a chance to reply since he's busy but it's become apparent that he has no intention of doing so and is in fact purposely ignoring me for reasons only he knows.
Although he seemed sincere in person at Anthrocon about his intentions I can no-longer trust him because his subsequent behavior is not that of a responsible business person or human being. I see no reason why I should trust him to finish the commissions I paid him for if he willfully ignores me without explanation.
It is for this reason that today, after a month of trying contact him and waiting for a reply, I decided to ask Gunmouth for a refund. I thought it would be best since I know I'm only going to get more frustrated if I attempt to wait longer and based on my experiences with other people I think it's unlikely he's going to reform his behavior to satisfy me. So, rather than drag-on this problem I just decided to ask for a refund. I have little sympathy for people think it's alright to ignore paying customers.
Today, on his FA page and by e-mail I wrote:
"No offense but if you're not going to reply to my messages for an update I want a refund. Please send $190USD that I paid you to my PayPal account (*****@******). I've been as patient as I'm going to be. Thx.
I'm also adding you to the Livejournal artists_beware thread that I'll be updating until this is resolved. You're nice enough in person and I know you're busy but I can't work with someone who never replies. "
I think it's unfortunate that it's come to this because I'm perfectly happy to wait for him to be able to finish them (and I really do want Gunmouth to finish them) but only if he maintains a dialogue with me when I infrequently ask him how it's coming along and when he expects it will be done. Otherwise, who's to say he's not a crook who's trying to rip me off?! A person's word is only as good as their actions.
I've got commissions still ongoing from 2008 from other artists without issue and the only difference between them and Gunmouth is that they actually respond--maybe not always right away, usually within the week but certainly within a month. A healthy dialogue is important! Gunmouth, for all his artistic merit, has unfortunately failed to keep in contact with this customer. In short, as far as I can tell, he's being irresponsible at best and criminal at worst. After all, if you pay someone for a service they have a responsibility to keep you informed and reply within a reasonable time period.
Here is a list of some of his online locations though which I've attempted to communicate with him:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gunmouth/
http://gunmouth.deviantart.com/
MSN: knockemupstinky(at sign thing)hotmail.com
AIM: badvibes13
# ICQ: 4337720
E-mail: (I'm not listing it for privacy reasons)
Other places where he's online:
http://gunnmouth.livejournal.com/
http://inkbunny.net/GuNMouTH
Note: The names, links, and contact info mentioned in this post are in the public domain and found online on the internet so I have no issue listing them here.
Will be updating this thread as things progress.
[[UPDATE: August 2, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved. Link to my reply to Gunmouth's reply to my initial post: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11512295#t11512295 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 3, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved (making headway, cautiously optimistic); Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11548647#t11548647 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 6, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: resolved. Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11609831#t11609831 ]]
[[EDIT: April 5, 2011: Didn't change anything but removed my e-mail address and replaced it with *****@****. I don't like it being so easily in the public domain; should have thought of that at the time but was preoccupied.]]
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JAN 07:
SUMMARY: Gunmouth is a complex person and seems decent and friendly enough in person. His artwork is superb. However, new commissioners are advised to restrict themselves to at convention commissions only. If commissioners decide to commission him for a take-home, they certainly should only pay a small deposit upfront and the remainder only after the commission is finished. Unfortunately, Gunmouth, like some artists, is not particularly reliable when it comes to responding to commissioners via the internet. Although I think we both tried our best to work together, speaking for myself, I simply became too uncomfortable waiting and waiting and having difficulty getting replies from him. For his part, I'm guessing he became frustrated with my attention to detail for the commission--although, I though we had resolved that and I did try my best to accommodate his needs.
Unwilling to prolong my frustration, yesterday, I asked for a refund. Gunmouth thankfully replied the same day and has refunded me 4/5ths of the total, and will refund the remaining 1/5th after he has more money in his Paypal. I regret that will never have the commission completed as it looked very promising in sketch form. As I explained to Gunmouth yesterday, I simply become far to frustrated when artists delay and fail to respond to messages. I don't send them often but when I do, I don't like waiting weeks or months for replies--it just doesn't inspire confidence in the artist. It made me feel like I was being scammed and lied to or at the very least constantly being bumped to he bottom of the priority pile--despite the fact that I had paid in full already--such that it was questionable whether the art would every actually get done. Feeling my mood and confidence gradually deteriorate, I decided asking for a refund from now was the best thing I could do to prevent what might become an eventual explosion of anger on my part which of course would not help matters. So, I'm quite grateful that Gunmouth responded promptly to the refund request and I look forward to getting the refund completed. I regret we couldn't make this work.
LONGER EXPLAINATION:
One commission was still outstanding. It was supposed to be finished by Anthrocon 2011 in June but all Gunmouth had was a sketch to show me. It was enough however that I felt that progress was being made. A few months later, I contacted Gunmouth to let him know that I would be attending MFF2011 in November and that I could pick up the completed commission if he was able to get it done by then. At MFF, Gunmouth showed me the sketch and asked if there were any changes that I'd like made; he apologized for not having it finished but said he had been too busy to get to it. Having doubts as to whether he actually wanted and intended to finish my commission I asked him if he wanted to finish it or not and he said yes. He asked me if I wanted any alterations made and we made some small alterations to the sketch. I then asked him for a guess as to a rough date of completion. Gunmouth said he'd probably have something to show me around mid December. I waited until December 28th before I asked him for an update regarding the commission. Receiving no response, I tried again a week later but still no reply. Three days later, after noticing that three other commissioners had posted shouts on Gunmouth's FA asking for updates for their commissions and complaining about the lack of communication, I finally had enough and sent Gunmouth a request for a refund. The same day Gunmouth refunded 4/5ths of the money paid to my Paypal and messaged me saying he'll send the rest when he has more money is his Paypal. So, for the moment things are alright.
However, I am disappointed that I wont be getting that commission from Gunmouth. The sketch as looking promising and we seemed to be getting a long well enough--although I know better than to say we were friends. Although Gunmouth has been better at communicating with me since the opening of this thread over a year ago, there have been a few occasions where he simply did not reply at all.
Essentially, it's the combination of waiting so long but especially the spotty communication that caused me to decide to ask for a refund. As I explained to Gunmouth, I find it much too frustrating and time consuming to have to constantly pursue artists when they don't answer or deliver on time. Compared to some other artists I've commissioned, Gunmouth has not been particularly communicative online and so I didn't have what I felt was a healthy rapport with him.
At MFF, trying to take Gunmouth's needs into consideration, I told him that I'd be alright waiting for the commission to be finished by Anthrocon 2012 if he couldn't complete it by December. However, as I have explained to him previously, my waiting is contingent upon the artist replying to messages. As a commissioner I simply got to the point where I questioned if the commission would ever be completed. Although my dealings with Gunmouth have revealed that he can be a pretty decent person with interesting perspectives and useful advice, I simply don't know him well enough trust him to finish it given the way things have been going.
So, that is the state of affairs. Prospective commissioners should feel free to commission him but just be cautious and I think everyone will be happier if commissioners limit themselves to at-con commissions only.
Gunmouth, if you end up reading this update, I want you to know I appreciate you trying to work with me but I think we both agree it wasn't working and that my asking for a refund was the best thing. I know now I wasn't a perfect commissioner initially--with respect to giving too much detail with the commission--but I have listened to you and other artists and have made things simpler and shorter and I continue to work on things. It has been a learning experience I think for both of us. I'm glad at least that even if we can't get the commission finished that at least we can end on a semi-positive note.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 FEB 10]]
Got rest of refund about a week ago.
Not sure if Gunmouth was reading my messages or only their titles.
Offered to let him keep the rest of the refund in exchange for the incomplete drawing (the existing sketch version) since it seemed the most mutually beneficial and he said he needed money. However, Gunmouth did not respond to that which is fine if disappointing.
He is really a poor communicator. Trying to contact him is like pulling teeth.
I think he was just frustrated with the level of detail I wanted. I tried my best to work with him and even asked him at MFF2011 if he wanted to do the drawing or not with no hard feelings either way.
At-con commissions are probably ok but would not recommend him for take homes.
Things could have ended on a better note but at least we didn't argue.
Situation is now fully resolved and closed.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JUN @ Anthrocon ]]
Spoke with Gunmouth in person. Wanted to try and patch things up as I felt we hadn't ended on the best of terms. I think we are both happier for the attempt. We talked about a few things and Gunmouth mentioned that the reason he hadn't finished my commission is that he realized that he doesn't like drawing hyper characters. Every time he tried to work on it he ended up working on something else. I also asked him why he wasn't always replying to my messages. He said his working style is more results oriented and that he prefers to only contact people when he has something to show them. So, our conversation all-in-all was positive. I asked Gunmouth about the possibility of paying him $20 to get the sketch he's already done and he said I could contact him prior to my next convention and he will bring the sketch so I can pay to get it. However, due to the fact that he doesn't enjoy drawing hypers (which I said I totally understand) and our disparate working styles (ie. concerning our views on online communication) I haven't any plans to commission Gunmouth again or to resume my uncompleted commission. So, all-in-all, I think we patched things up so that we both feel at ease.
I commissioned him at Anthrocon and he owes me two commissions which I paid for in full and one of which I have yet to give him details for (which was commissioned prior to this year's Anthrocon).
Since Anthrocon 2010, I've been contact Gunmouth to remind him about my commission from Anthrocon 2010 and ask him when he thought he might finish it. I just wanted to know when he thought he'd have it done. That way, I could just wait until then rather then messaging him every month or so. Indeed, the AC2010 commission was supposed to be finished at Anthrocon he wasn't able to get it done in time. The rough draft of the drawing was nearly complete but he had to trace it on good paper and ink it. I said, sure, no problem; I'd rather be patient and have you do it right than rush to get it done at the con. If you want to take it come and are ok with that then I'm fine with that to.
Since I've had problems communicating with him in the past prior to AC2010, I made sure to tell him that while I'm fine with being patient, even several months if necessary, it drives me nuts when I get no response to my inquires about the status of my commission. I made sure Gunmouth knew this and asked him to please reply and asked him if he could do this and he said sure.
Now, since the AC2010 drawing was close to being done, I thought he should have some news to tell me around a month after AC but he hasn't attempted to contact me or reply to my messages despite the fact that his FurAffinity account is active (he posts journals, favs artwork, replies to others comments on his FA page, etc.).
In short, the problem is that he doesn't read my FA messages and doesn't respond to them. I know he doesn't read my FA messages because FA allows you to check if they've been opened by the recipient. He never, ever checks them. I've even posted directly on the front of his FA page to get his attention and still he ignores me. If he has time to reply to comments on his FA page and fave pictures and even after almost a month since AC2010 he still hasn't replied, well, there's no excuse. It's not complicated or hard for him to reply to my asking him for an idea when an almost complete commission will be finished--in fact, it would have taken him mere seconds to reply but he didn't. That lack of responsiveness does not inspire confidence or trust.
I've been keeping track of the dates when I've messaged him since AC2010. I messaged him on July 4, July 19, July 29, July 30, and today. I've sent messages to his Furaffinity mailbox, posts on directly on his Furaffinity page, to his e-mail, MSN, ICQ, and AIM accounts, and on his Deviantart page. At first, I thought to wait two weeks each time and give him a chance to reply since he's busy but it's become apparent that he has no intention of doing so and is in fact purposely ignoring me for reasons only he knows.
Although he seemed sincere in person at Anthrocon about his intentions I can no-longer trust him because his subsequent behavior is not that of a responsible business person or human being. I see no reason why I should trust him to finish the commissions I paid him for if he willfully ignores me without explanation.
It is for this reason that today, after a month of trying contact him and waiting for a reply, I decided to ask Gunmouth for a refund. I thought it would be best since I know I'm only going to get more frustrated if I attempt to wait longer and based on my experiences with other people I think it's unlikely he's going to reform his behavior to satisfy me. So, rather than drag-on this problem I just decided to ask for a refund. I have little sympathy for people think it's alright to ignore paying customers.
Today, on his FA page and by e-mail I wrote:
"No offense but if you're not going to reply to my messages for an update I want a refund. Please send $190USD that I paid you to my PayPal account (*****@******). I've been as patient as I'm going to be. Thx.
I'm also adding you to the Livejournal artists_beware thread that I'll be updating until this is resolved. You're nice enough in person and I know you're busy but I can't work with someone who never replies. "
I think it's unfortunate that it's come to this because I'm perfectly happy to wait for him to be able to finish them (and I really do want Gunmouth to finish them) but only if he maintains a dialogue with me when I infrequently ask him how it's coming along and when he expects it will be done. Otherwise, who's to say he's not a crook who's trying to rip me off?! A person's word is only as good as their actions.
I've got commissions still ongoing from 2008 from other artists without issue and the only difference between them and Gunmouth is that they actually respond--maybe not always right away, usually within the week but certainly within a month. A healthy dialogue is important! Gunmouth, for all his artistic merit, has unfortunately failed to keep in contact with this customer. In short, as far as I can tell, he's being irresponsible at best and criminal at worst. After all, if you pay someone for a service they have a responsibility to keep you informed and reply within a reasonable time period.
Here is a list of some of his online locations though which I've attempted to communicate with him:
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/gunmouth/
http://gunmouth.deviantart.com/
MSN: knockemupstinky(at sign thing)hotmail.com
AIM: badvibes13
# ICQ: 4337720
E-mail: (I'm not listing it for privacy reasons)
Other places where he's online:
http://gunnmouth.livejournal.com/
http://inkbunny.net/GuNMouTH
Note: The names, links, and contact info mentioned in this post are in the public domain and found online on the internet so I have no issue listing them here.
Will be updating this thread as things progress.
[[UPDATE: August 2, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved. Link to my reply to Gunmouth's reply to my initial post: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11512295#t11512295 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 3, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: in process of being resolved (making headway, cautiously optimistic); Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11548647#t11548647 ]]
[[UPDATE: August 6, 2010, Current Status of Dispute: resolved. Link to my update: http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/356583.html?thread=11609831#t11609831 ]]
[[EDIT: April 5, 2011: Didn't change anything but removed my e-mail address and replaced it with *****@****. I don't like it being so easily in the public domain; should have thought of that at the time but was preoccupied.]]
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JAN 07:
SUMMARY: Gunmouth is a complex person and seems decent and friendly enough in person. His artwork is superb. However, new commissioners are advised to restrict themselves to at convention commissions only. If commissioners decide to commission him for a take-home, they certainly should only pay a small deposit upfront and the remainder only after the commission is finished. Unfortunately, Gunmouth, like some artists, is not particularly reliable when it comes to responding to commissioners via the internet. Although I think we both tried our best to work together, speaking for myself, I simply became too uncomfortable waiting and waiting and having difficulty getting replies from him. For his part, I'm guessing he became frustrated with my attention to detail for the commission--although, I though we had resolved that and I did try my best to accommodate his needs.
Unwilling to prolong my frustration, yesterday, I asked for a refund. Gunmouth thankfully replied the same day and has refunded me 4/5ths of the total, and will refund the remaining 1/5th after he has more money in his Paypal. I regret that will never have the commission completed as it looked very promising in sketch form. As I explained to Gunmouth yesterday, I simply become far to frustrated when artists delay and fail to respond to messages. I don't send them often but when I do, I don't like waiting weeks or months for replies--it just doesn't inspire confidence in the artist. It made me feel like I was being scammed and lied to or at the very least constantly being bumped to he bottom of the priority pile--despite the fact that I had paid in full already--such that it was questionable whether the art would every actually get done. Feeling my mood and confidence gradually deteriorate, I decided asking for a refund from now was the best thing I could do to prevent what might become an eventual explosion of anger on my part which of course would not help matters. So, I'm quite grateful that Gunmouth responded promptly to the refund request and I look forward to getting the refund completed. I regret we couldn't make this work.
LONGER EXPLAINATION:
One commission was still outstanding. It was supposed to be finished by Anthrocon 2011 in June but all Gunmouth had was a sketch to show me. It was enough however that I felt that progress was being made. A few months later, I contacted Gunmouth to let him know that I would be attending MFF2011 in November and that I could pick up the completed commission if he was able to get it done by then. At MFF, Gunmouth showed me the sketch and asked if there were any changes that I'd like made; he apologized for not having it finished but said he had been too busy to get to it. Having doubts as to whether he actually wanted and intended to finish my commission I asked him if he wanted to finish it or not and he said yes. He asked me if I wanted any alterations made and we made some small alterations to the sketch. I then asked him for a guess as to a rough date of completion. Gunmouth said he'd probably have something to show me around mid December. I waited until December 28th before I asked him for an update regarding the commission. Receiving no response, I tried again a week later but still no reply. Three days later, after noticing that three other commissioners had posted shouts on Gunmouth's FA asking for updates for their commissions and complaining about the lack of communication, I finally had enough and sent Gunmouth a request for a refund. The same day Gunmouth refunded 4/5ths of the money paid to my Paypal and messaged me saying he'll send the rest when he has more money is his Paypal. So, for the moment things are alright.
However, I am disappointed that I wont be getting that commission from Gunmouth. The sketch as looking promising and we seemed to be getting a long well enough--although I know better than to say we were friends. Although Gunmouth has been better at communicating with me since the opening of this thread over a year ago, there have been a few occasions where he simply did not reply at all.
Essentially, it's the combination of waiting so long but especially the spotty communication that caused me to decide to ask for a refund. As I explained to Gunmouth, I find it much too frustrating and time consuming to have to constantly pursue artists when they don't answer or deliver on time. Compared to some other artists I've commissioned, Gunmouth has not been particularly communicative online and so I didn't have what I felt was a healthy rapport with him.
At MFF, trying to take Gunmouth's needs into consideration, I told him that I'd be alright waiting for the commission to be finished by Anthrocon 2012 if he couldn't complete it by December. However, as I have explained to him previously, my waiting is contingent upon the artist replying to messages. As a commissioner I simply got to the point where I questioned if the commission would ever be completed. Although my dealings with Gunmouth have revealed that he can be a pretty decent person with interesting perspectives and useful advice, I simply don't know him well enough trust him to finish it given the way things have been going.
So, that is the state of affairs. Prospective commissioners should feel free to commission him but just be cautious and I think everyone will be happier if commissioners limit themselves to at-con commissions only.
Gunmouth, if you end up reading this update, I want you to know I appreciate you trying to work with me but I think we both agree it wasn't working and that my asking for a refund was the best thing. I know now I wasn't a perfect commissioner initially--with respect to giving too much detail with the commission--but I have listened to you and other artists and have made things simpler and shorter and I continue to work on things. It has been a learning experience I think for both of us. I'm glad at least that even if we can't get the commission finished that at least we can end on a semi-positive note.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 FEB 10]]
Got rest of refund about a week ago.
Not sure if Gunmouth was reading my messages or only their titles.
Offered to let him keep the rest of the refund in exchange for the incomplete drawing (the existing sketch version) since it seemed the most mutually beneficial and he said he needed money. However, Gunmouth did not respond to that which is fine if disappointing.
He is really a poor communicator. Trying to contact him is like pulling teeth.
I think he was just frustrated with the level of detail I wanted. I tried my best to work with him and even asked him at MFF2011 if he wanted to do the drawing or not with no hard feelings either way.
At-con commissions are probably ok but would not recommend him for take homes.
Things could have ended on a better note but at least we didn't argue.
Situation is now fully resolved and closed.
[[ UPDATE: 2012 JUN @ Anthrocon ]]
Spoke with Gunmouth in person. Wanted to try and patch things up as I felt we hadn't ended on the best of terms. I think we are both happier for the attempt. We talked about a few things and Gunmouth mentioned that the reason he hadn't finished my commission is that he realized that he doesn't like drawing hyper characters. Every time he tried to work on it he ended up working on something else. I also asked him why he wasn't always replying to my messages. He said his working style is more results oriented and that he prefers to only contact people when he has something to show them. So, our conversation all-in-all was positive. I asked Gunmouth about the possibility of paying him $20 to get the sketch he's already done and he said I could contact him prior to my next convention and he will bring the sketch so I can pay to get it. However, due to the fact that he doesn't enjoy drawing hypers (which I said I totally understand) and our disparate working styles (ie. concerning our views on online communication) I haven't any plans to commission Gunmouth again or to resume my uncompleted commission. So, all-in-all, I think we patched things up so that we both feel at ease.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 02:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 02:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 02:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 02:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 03:36 am (UTC)Also, I'm not "eating up" anything he said. If I were in his position, then frankly, I'd have been sorely tempted to ignore him as well. I'm totally open to comment and criticism on the very rare occasions that I do any sort of work ("very rare" meaning I've never even done any commissions, so IANAL applies... or is it IANAA?) but when people nitpick like that, it's less a case of ensuring your final product is satisfactory and more a case of "I want to make this but I'm too lazy to learn how to draw/write, so I'll have somebody else make this for me." Commissions are a two-way street. The artist has to have some input as well--asking somebody lesser-known with a different style or less experience to draw like Zen is a bit rude, as well as sorta impossible. Why, then, is it okay to ask somebody to draw in what would be YOUR personal style?
Finally, he's not making excuses for anything. What he IS doing is saying WHY he ignored the OP like he did--namely, that the OP was incredibly impatient and nitpicky. He admitted that he was in the wrong, and apologized. So why are you treating him as if he's saying... well, "the subject is disgusting and weird and that's why he/she should totally let you off for ignoring him/her."
As an aside, I met him at AC '10 and I bought the first Cownugget CD for 30 bucks, and preordered the 2nd one because it wasn't available at the con. The first volume turned out to be mostly stuff he'd already posted to FA and the second has suffered delays beyond what he said at AC, but ultimately that's a case of caveat emptor--I'm not happy with the purchase (at least of the first CD), but I'm not going to begrudge him my money or pester him for a refund, either. Yeah, I wish I hadn't spent so much money on the first CD, but the second one is something that I am anticipating--PATIENTLY.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 04:05 am (UTC)Hi Gunmouth,
My comments in reply to your question about the drawing are in the attachment I've sent to you here.
Short answer is that is looks great and I don't really see much I'd comment on. Please take a look at the attached picture though because it will give you a better idea.
Umm, thank you for replying to me. I'm sorry that you felt I've caused you problems. I really didn't know that or think anything was wrong. Please take a look at the Livejournal thread. I've responded to your comments point-by-point and talk about what I want to do with the AC2009 commission.
Regarding the AC2009 commission, what I didn't say in the LJ thread was this:
Now that I've had some time to read what you wrote and think about it I propose the following:
If you are willing to finish that one to, let me tell you in words exactly what I want for my AC2009 commission. I know it will either be me as a herm dragon exactly like you drew in the other drawing or my as one of your Ruke characters but as a herm. I haven't decided yet. I've got some other artists that I'm working with and I need to reply to them first which, as I've mentioned to you before, I haven't given told you exactly what I want for the AC2009 one yet. Since I know you would like me to be brief, I propose to write you a very short description and you can tell me if you want to go ahead with it or not.
Umm, I know I asked for a refund for the 2009 commission. You can hold-off on that until the end of the week because I want to talk to you about my 2009 commission and figure out what we're doing. After that, I'll either let you keep it for now or ask for a refund. After spending all day trying to respond to the LJ comments and reply to you, I'm too tired this late at night to think about it clearly. So, I'll get back to you about that tomorrow or before the end of the week so we can get this settled to our mutual satisfaction.
Is that all ok?
Any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to ask. And thank you again for replying and thank you for your apology.
~ Feather ~
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 04:13 am (UTC)How long would you have waited for a reply to a question like mine and why?
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 04:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 04:41 am (UTC)Really, I guess the difference between you and me is a difference of opinion.
You see, I've delt with other artists, movers, hotels, etc.. In each case, the one thing in common was that they never replied or said they would and never did (and in one case, disappeared for several months). I used to wait several months with people like this. I used to think I was doing the right thing be being so patient even though there was a problem. What my experiences have taught me though is that in cases where people are evasive it's best to give them a fair and reasonable but not excessive amount of time to reply because in the end it turned out that they were stringing me along and never intended to do anything. In my opinion a month for a reply is plenty long enough. Waiting longer tends to screw you over more or let things drag on unnecessarily.
Umm, just so I'm sure you understand me: You do know that when I say "a month is long enough for a reply" I'm not saying I expect the artwork to be finished in a month's time, right?
All I was referring to was the Gunmouth wasn't replying to me; and in my view, that's plenty of time for someone to reply and if they don't I view that as a problem, especially if I've paid them money for a service.
I used to trust people more but I've been screwed over enough times that I don't take things for granted and I judge people according to their actions rather than just their words or lack thereof.
I understand your view. I just don't share it is all. :3
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Date: 2010-08-03 05:05 am (UTC)If someone is annoying to you, don't take the commission. Gunmouth says he has experience with this person before and didn't like them, so why allow him to commish something again? Needing money is NOT ever an excuse for poor service and being outright ignored.
he also posted details of the commission that really make it seem like he's shaming the OP- I dont have the quote handy but I believe "Giant lactating breasts" and "Balls that must hang at least a foot" were involved and those, in context, sounded harsh and derogatory.
I'm not going to wholly address the artistic part of your post, since theres no way to know if the OP was simply providing lots of references and being specific with what they wanted, or if they were trying to alter the artists' style- but I will say that in doing requests, even for free, it is NOT uncommon for me to ask for, and be provided, a reference from the requester of the kind of style and look they like- not to alter my own style whatsoever, but to know what they're going for as an end result- and I think these references would be helpful in such an expensive commish to ensure the commissioner was satisfied.
Considering the history here, and taking in the facts as I see them, I see these as excuses. Why would he smear the OP so much if he wasn't trying to excuse his actions or gain sympathy? :/
I hope Gunmouth can make things right, but if its common for people to be waiting for ages/ignored due to being deemed 'annoying', etc.. I don't think I'd personally commission them, since I like communication without chasing after someone, too.
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Date: 2010-08-03 05:43 am (UTC)It was intimidating and I only meant that I understood what the artist was saying, because it seemed like a poster was accusing them of lying. It can come off as different things to different people--honestly, as an artist one needs to be able to say when they need space or when critique is encouraged. You have some very good tips but can come off as strong, ya know? I hope I didn't offend by responding. =3 I meant only to say that I see how the artist could see it that way, *not* in that they had any right to ignore you.
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Date: 2010-08-03 07:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 07:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 07:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 07:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 10:16 am (UTC)By the time the con was reaching its end, I had already done half the work. It was THEN that he started steadily asking for more and more corrections. So I thought to myself, "Better hurry and get this guy's pic done, or I'll be caught in a neverending loop of corrections. If I HAD finished the picture as soon as I had planned, this whole thread would NOT be here.
So WHAT do you want from me? I am not ignoring him anymore. I admitted that I was WRONG, AND I apologized. I did more work on his sketch, and am waiting for his approval. I even contacted other people in this thread, and am taking care of their business. I ADMITTED to being horribly organized, forgetful, extremely slow, and procrastinating. You even said you wanted me to see things from the commissioner's perspective-- which I DO, and I even mentioned that.
Will you NOT be SATISFIED until a gaggle of people post, "I AM MAD AT GUNMOUTH AND WILL NOT COMMISSION HIM EVER AGAIN!!" ? It really seems that way, with people getting all upset that "the crowd is EATING THIS UP," as if that somehow ruins your day.
The fact is that MOST of my commissions get done just fine, and MOST people come back for more. True, some peoples' commissions slip by, but MOST of them I keep in decent communication with, and I work it out with them in SOME way. AND YES, SOMETIMES A FEW OF THEM POST HERE, BUT THEN I FIX IT. POINT IS, NO MATTER WHAT THE COMPLICATION, I *DO* EVENTUALLY FINISH THE JOB. On top of that, I do a GOOD job.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 10:32 am (UTC)I was angry at Feather because he sat at our table and covered our merchandise for literally hours. I was mad that he insulted Kami's artistic ability. That anger had subsided by the time Anthrocon came around (Yeah, people can forgive others! Imagine that!). Everything was FINE during the con. Only towards the end did he start to ask for more and more corrections, as if he was just making up new ones. I wanted to finish the picture before he could continue to do so.
It seems like everyone thinks that I foolishly took on a commission that I did not want to do. I have had to explain this over and over, and yet people still think it was all over money and the subject matter.
Is it really that hard to understand that I simply got over what he did, and was willing to continue things in a friendly manner? That is what happened. YES I foolishly ignored him, and I apologized, and am now finishing his work.
Does this information satisfy you, or do you still have a problem...?
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 10:47 am (UTC)At AC, it wasn't so bad as it was at MFF. He seemed to be TRYING to reserve himself. so I though, "Hey, he's trying to be cool this time. I admire that. I will forget about the past and do his image."
And guess what... I DID do his image. All I had to do was ink it.
But as the con went on, he started asking for more changes. I then decided I would just get the picture done to avoid hearing him wanting more changes. In doing this, I ignored him. I admitted I was wrong in doing so, and I apologized, and I am currently resolving it all with him.
I was not trying to "shame him" at all. I was telling my side of the story, and leaving nothing out. I was showing how annoying he had been to better explain why I would even THINK of ignoring him (which AGAIN, I admitted to being wrong, and apologized for).
ONE person said that they would not want Feather to commission them. I hardly think that qualifies for "the community eating it up."
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 11:03 am (UTC)Yes, it is true, I am a forgetful person, and tend to forget a few commissions. But eventually, I DO remember, or the commissioner reminds me, and all is OK. On RARE occasions, someone has made an AB post about me, then someone tells me about it, and I take care of it, which is probably why the OPs of those threads deleted their postings.
I like how you're placing your quotation marks there... As if I stroke my Snidely Whiplash moustache, and PLAN to forget about commissions. I find it funny that even if someone tries to correct problems here, they get scoffed at along the way, or other readers get mad if not enough people are complaining. Or is this just because I am "popular," and you want nothing more than to see a "POPULAR" artist on his knees... and then when he gets on his knees, see him kicked in the face...?
I mean, correct me if I am wrong here.... am I not doing what I should be doing... what you people want me to do?
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Date: 2010-08-03 11:08 am (UTC)Again, sorry for lack of communication. I thought I would let the work do the talking, but when that work never came, I should have said something...
I'll have your pic done ASAP. :)
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Date: 2010-08-03 11:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 05:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 05:09 pm (UTC)But please, we'd all like to know exactly how traumatizing this experience has been for you. Really. You poor thing.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 05:19 pm (UTC)Private details like this? Have no need to be in this debate. That's an extreme breach of a customer's privacy. It's not Gunmouth's place to tell us the details of Feather's commission, that's up to Feather's discretion. He could have easily explained that Feather is a difficult and picky customer, and a nuisance, and even mention that the subject matter was 'difficult' 'adult in nature' and 'extremely detailed', without being an egregious dick about it.
So unbelievably unprofessional to put up in front of a large, public community, without permission. I couldn't believe I'd actually read that.
But the customer being annoying makes that ok? .......Allrighty.
no subject
Date: 2010-08-03 06:28 pm (UTC)Gunmouth and I are currently talking privately and are in the process of resolving things. Currently, I'd categorize my feelings as cautiously optimistic. Gunmouth explained his point of view on Livejournal and I replied and now he and I seem to have a tentative understanding.
From the latest news I've received from him, I would say that he seems to be making an honest effort now to resolve things and work things out. I want to state for the record that appreciate his efforts and I hope they will continue. I will also try my best to accommodate Gunmouth now that I'm aware that something was bothering him and what those things were. Both of us have agreed to try and work together.
I will update this thread again either once the situation is fully resolved or if anything happens that necessitates me coming back here to report on or reopen.
I've agreed with Gunmouth to continue our talks in private as long as he doesn't start ignoring me again, for which he apologized, and I think he's said or agreed either directly or indirectly not to do that again.
So, things seem to be going well at the moment. I'll let you all know how things turn out and of any updates worth noting.
~ Feather ~