My advice for Do Not Commission artist Shiuk

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

FIRST OF ALL !!! This is NOT a flaming attack or personal attack against Shiuk! This is a BUSINESS RELATED warning for the artist shiuk !! Please do understand I am writing this so that others can be aware of it and that hopefully Shiuk will listen to this and take this story into future relations with customers.

Back in April/March 2010 me and Shiuk discussed a commission I wanted to do. Shiuk was being very friendly and after I explained the drawing, he send me his OK on it, and I payed him shortly after. For such a good artist, 40 dollars is a nice deal! So Shiuk said he would have it done within a few weeks and I told him that was fine and even if it took longer, that was fine too :).
So after like 1 or 2 weeks after we made the deal, he already send me the sketched version of the commission and I was like, woow, that is very fast! And it looked perfect right from the start. All it needed was colouring and this drawing would have been finished!

So a few weeks went by and I haven't heard anything, so I thought I would send him a note asking POLITELY and KINDLY without any threats or flaming, what the status was. He said he was still working on it and I was fine with that comment, so I kept my mouth shut for another month or so. No word from Shiuk and no drawing yet either. Im a very patient guy. Dont like pushing artists by asking constantly on how things are doing.

During this period it was practically impossible for me to get any sort of reaction from Shiuk. I tried mailing him a couple of times, still being polite and kind, if I could get a status update. Since he said it would be done in a month or so, we are now already going to speak of months. Also tried leaving hints to his Twitter and Formspring, but the Twitter failed because he couldn't see my Tweets, and the second he must have seen, but deleted the questions. I cannot remember if I asked him things by the use of FA Notes, I think I did, but cannot confirm.
So over a time span of months and months I didn't do anything and just let it be, cause I had my busy life too and to be constantly going after him to ask what the status was, I didnt really wonna do. Of course I did saw new artwork being posted of him during that time, his Twitter still updating, so it seemed he was still alive.

Eventually we hit on December when a friend of mine just had a commission finished from Shiuk. So I immediatly asked him how long it took Shiuk for it to finish that one and when did you order it? Apparently Shiuk managed to get this one done in a few weeks time without any problems. This of course got me motivated again to search contact with Shiuk. Which my friend then politely asked Shiuk, cause he was still talking to him through IM and not through me, what the status was. I also posted on the same timeframe a FA Shout, and just minutes after that the shout got deleted and I finally had contact with Shiuk again through the FA Notes system!

To my shock the message was really short. Not really giving me an apology for waiting 8 months to get a commission from him, but just saying he will have it done by the weekend. So of course I tried getting a reason from him why he took so long to finish my drawing and why he hasn't been in touch and all that. His reasons were pointed to the furry fandom it seemed, which i could understand, but still. Your dealing with a costumer here. I kept on trying and get a reason out of him, but failing. At first he also offered a refund since he would be much happier with that. I did not agree as I did not waited 8 months just to get a refund. Told him he was a good artist and that he was almost done and it's making everybody happy if you finish this one. And if he didnt wanted to do my commission for whatever reason, he should have stated that during our deal moment or at least quickly after, but he already made the sketch, so that wasnt the case.

So the date was set for last weekend, but I still didnt have anything. But Shiuk did leave me a very nice message saying that he couldnt get to it on Sunday and he would finish it on Monday. So the Monday passed, The Tuesday passed, And up until late Wednesday, still nothing. No word, no drawing. So I poked him again about it asking the status, he replied: Just a lot of sudden "Oh, I wanted this for christmas" People. So then I said that I have waited 8 months for this drawing. You keep promising dates and its still NOT done yet. He replied: I'll add you to the before Christmas list. So I got a little pissed off from this as he promised me he would have it done long time ago, and now I have to wait a few more days again??? Sorry, but no way!

And then out of the blue I get two FA Notes saying: *sigh* and I am done. Refund has been sent.

And that was enough reason for me to post this Do Not Commission info towards Shiuk. His communication skills desperately need to improve and I felt like I have been treated poorly by his way of business. Highly recommend not doing business with him unless he makes some changes to finish commissions faster and communication about delays with his customers. In fact I wouldnt even call this a delay, but a simple, screw you, thing. Sure he gave me a refund, but that is not a good reason to calm down and not post something on my experience of this artist.
Shiuk needs to realize that I have been very patient with him, have been treating him professionally in my ways of contact through mail and other resorts. That I had no personal attack or flaming or anything else in mind towards him. I just wanted to have this wonderful artist, finish something :). And because he handled this as poorly as it can get, I just had to write about it.

I have posted this on my FA as a journal note and it seems more people are having issues with Shiuk. http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/1962562/.

Some screenshots of the e-mails I have been sending to him. Please note the dates. They qualify as enough timespan to not pester him right? :)

http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk.png
http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk2.png
http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk3.png
http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk4.png

Comments

[tornaderman.livejournal.com]

I've heard of quite a few people in the same situation with this artist. It's good you at least got a refund from it though!

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

There's not much I can say about the artist, other then yes, he does deserve a beware and seems a lot of people have been having trouble with him.

However, no matter how long he's taking, I don't think it's in your right to pester him to find out why there was a delay. It's more proper for the artist to give you a little idea, but there's no need for them to tell you everything if it's something personal. Can people correct me on this if I'm wrong?

In the future though, if someone offers you a refund, it's a pretty good sign that trouble may come if you don't accept it. There's multiple reasons why someone wouldn't want to work on the picture anymore. Even if they started and liked the idea from the get-go, sometimes things happen. I had to do a pretty cool picture for someone, but it wasn't something I normally do and in the end, we had to discuss either a refund or a new picture because I just couldn't get it right. I know that isn't the case here, but it's an example.

Not condoning what he did at all, and this was mostly neutral what I said, it isn't info just for this situation, but for whenever you come across it again.

[zackfig.livejournal.com]

This.

However, it can actually be aggravating when your commission is thematically similar to what the artist has been chuggin between the original date of the commission and the day the issue is brought up.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Oh no, what I mean is, let's say someone close to them has passed away. It's ok to ask why there was a delay, and it's a good idea for the artist to give you a little idea. But something so personal, I would think it a little rude for someone to pester (it sounds like they asked much more then once) and try to find out what it is when it's something the artist would really not want to talk about.

Of course though, the artist should be apologize lots and other things, instead of sending such short sentences and not apologizing at all.

Of course, we don't know what the real delay was, it could be nothing, I just mean this in general.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

I would have been perfectly okay with Shiuk saying he has a lot of family issues and my commission would be delayed to a new estimated date. And normally you are right. Most people tend to bug artists on a daily basis, which I really hate. There are always weeks, and in Shiuks case, even months between my status messages. Not to a single one he replied. Sorry, but over a timespan of 8 months, I don't think I was pestering or pushing it. Seriously... How long do you have to wait between mails to get a response? Months??? I sure hope not.

When your paying good money towards an artist, your making a business deal with them. You give them money and you expect a proper treatment from start to finish to get what you want and agreed upon. No matter the situation, the person responsable for the creation of your product, must keep you informed of any delays or changes. It's a human thing to do no matter if something terribly happened in the personal life. I would expect a message within a few weeks time period, not days of course, but at least something telling stuff got horribly delayed due to family issues. If that was the case, you would have prolly not heard me complain on Shiuk :). Shiuk is a business man because he is offering his artistic skills. So I expect a proper business handling and no BS :)

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

I tried to re explain myself below.

But, no, you ARE right, it's just how you worded it, it sounded much more like you pushed it and kept asking, in a shorter time span then what you say here. That's what I wasn't so sure about. And I keep saying, I wasn't saying those things about this particular situation. You are in the right here, I was only warning a bit incase you did what I though you did, with others.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Okay, then my wording should be been better, but it's my first time posting on artist beware and this is also the first time I ever had an issue with an artist :P. So my apologies if my original message did not had enough info on the time span between my status messages towards Shiuk ^^. You are right :).

And I don't wonna be rude to you though xD. Through the ways of text, things can look a little bit forced :). Once again my apologies if it looked that way.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Oh no, it's perfectly fine :3 I'm not trying to reprimand you or anything, just giving my thoughts on what I thought had happened, it's why I said people should correct me if I'm wrong lol I have trouble expressing myself right anyways, so things come out differently then what I actually think.

Actually, if you have them, it might be a good idea to add in screen shots of communication. You'll most likely get someone commenting that since it REALLY helps your case when you do ^^

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Yes I can make some screenshots although I have to censor some areas, because they contain some NSFW yiffy discussions lol.

http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk.png
http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk2.png
http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk3.png
http://www.shivon.nl/shiuk/shiuk4.png

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

It's good that you stayed friendly and polite :3 It really helps your case when you stay professional but firm.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Yeah I really don't hold any hate towards him even for being months delayed. Just state polite and hope he would respond, but nope, nothing :).

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Couldn't agree more :). Really would not mind if artists get delayed for whatever reason as long as they state them though :P. An estimated time would be nice and even then, I would wait before asking another status message for at least a few weeks. Not days.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

It is my perfect right to send him status messages on how things are going. I am a paying customer and if a artist promises me dates on when it will be finished, I expect it to be finished at that time frame :). And I am a very patient guy. Its not I was constantly bugging him if he was like one day late with his last time frame. I waited weeks :). If not, then I expect a notification of the delay and a possible new delivery date. Shiuk has failed in doing so in every way possible. And remember, I have waited months before contacting him again asking a SIMPLE question for a status. That's all I ask for. I don't care if he says 6 months, but at least deliver the drawing to me in 6 months from now, not constantly making new dates without stating any reason for the delay.

Like I said before, I would have been fine if he said he didn't want to finish it because of whatever reason. But Shiuk did not told me anything to why he did not wanted to finish. At least be honest to me and tell me you suddenly hate the idea or you just don't feel like doing it. THATS a reason :P. Shiuk gave me none.

Well I do reply to your message and also tell it in this situation, so that others can use that information to stop this from happening :)

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Again, I was talking in general, not about this specific situation :3

What I mean is, like I said to pensive, it seems a little rude to really pester him about reasons, when its quite possible it's something very personal. Since the way you worded it, you really pushed it. (Again, not condoning him, he should have done a lot of things he didn't do)

From what I understand on the refund part, what you wrote in the original post, you felt he should have refunded before the sketch got started, but I disagree with that since things can happen. In general, I mean. 8 months is too long to be waiting around.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

And nope I did not wanted to be refunded at all !! :P When I give my money to an artist the last thing I want, would be a refund. Shiuk FORCED the refund upon me. Really would have loved to see this finished, but he just wanted to deal with it his way, which was basically a waste of my time then. Cause if you, even after the refund, cannot tell me why you don't want to finish it, its just not cool :P. How hard could it be to write something like: Sorry dude, I got some issues in my personal life, I gave you a refund and I am sorry for the trouble.
If this is what he wrote, the whole artist beware post would not be even here :D.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Agreed. When I had trouble with that commission (the one I mentioned before), I was apologizing like crazy, explaining what was wrong and giving them several options on alternatives.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Which is the absolute, perfect way, to deal with such situations :D. Seriously, if Shiuk did exactly like you just described, you would not have heard a peep from me :).

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

True, though waiting 8 months for pretty much nothing deserves a beware as well, especially while still working on a lot of other commissions.

I've been seeing more and more complaints on him, and he seems to have a bit of an attitude.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Yes waiting 8 months is very very long, and I would have been fine with it if others had to wait this long too, but since a lot of commissions were done in a matter of weeks from order to finish, is just not good.

Yeah some even told me his attitude was that of being a complete dick. Now I don't like saying this myself, as he did not yelled at me during our communications, but still, a lot of people state this.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Ya, he was pretty good with you, in comparison. I think I've seen other posts with screencaps of messages from him and they were pretty bad, if I remember correctly.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

I think I may not be explaining myself right. Trying again! About the asking why there's a delay. This is written in general when talking to an artist, not about this specific situation.

Asking why there's a delay is perfectly fine and you should know. It's never come to the point where I needed to be asked myself, but if someone did, I'd easily let them know.

What I'm kinda not sure about, is pestering about it when it seems they're reluctant to say anything. It's possible they don't want to say anything because they have no reason, which is what I'm assuming happened here. But, it's also possible that it's something very personal. Does working for someone mean that you have to tell them any personal delay? I'm actually asking, since I don't really know.

Of course, not condoning him at all. Even if it's personally, you can still give an idea of what's up. Say your mother is sick and she needed you around, instead of telling them how shes so sick shes going to pass on soon.

[semisonicstar.livejournal.com]

"Does working for someone mean that you have to tell them any personal delay?" -- To be honest, imo, yes. They paid money for a service, they deserve to know if that service has been delayed. You don't have to spill your guts or give away the major details, but I feel like they /absolutely/ deserve to know if they won't be receiving their work when expected. I mean... you can't just not go into work one day and never explain why because it was for 'personal reasons', to me this is no different. ^^; Their reason for not speaking up is, to me, irrelevant. If nothing else, a simple "It will be done by x date, sorry for the delay" would be possible, surely...

(Generalized 'you' here by the way! Not you as in you personally, hahaha)

Just my thoughts! Others may disagree.

[ichigoneko33.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I agree with that. They should let you know something, or at the very least let you know in advance it will be on a different day then expected.

Ya, I wasn't sure since I haven't actually worked somewhere before, so I don't know what's actually expected.

[semisonicstar.livejournal.com]

Ahh okay. ^^; Well as I said this is all just my thoughts on the matter, hehe.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Perfectly said :). We are customers just like in a business life. Your example with the work situation is something I fully much agree on as well.

And the "It will be done by x date, sorry for the delay" part, Shiuk did supply me with by saying it would be done last weekend, which he then changed to Monday and eventually ME being the one again needing to ask for where the drawing is, since it was already Wednesday night, and then getting another due date that it will be done before Christmas :P. But for me I waited long enough and told him I did not agree and really would love to see it done today. Which he then replied too by a forced refund and that was it :). Sorry but even if he did managed it to finish before Christmas, I have still waited 8 months for it and if my friend didn't poke him about it, I prolly was still waiting for that refund or basically anything to happen from his side :P.

[semisonicstar.livejournal.com]

Ahh yeah, not making good on given dates isn't fun. =( Sorry it turned out the way it did, sadness!

[ocelotish]

I thought that you actually could. I thought that's what personal days were for? I didn't think you generally needed to explain those.

Also, asking once is fine, but pressing would be wrong, imho.

[kadaria.livejournal.com]

>Does working for someone mean that you have to tell them any personal delay?<
Yes, it's common courtesy. You don't have to go into minute details, but if you know that you are going to miss a deadline, you need to at least give the buyer a heads up. Art is a service based job, if you have poor customer service you aren't going to last very long as a business.

For example, say I order something on Amazon.com but oops, they ran out of the item. I get an email about it letting me know that the item isn't in stock and I get a choice to wait, or get a refund/credit. I don't get left hanging for months until it's restocked. Amazon may seem kind of out there compared to art commissions, but think about how the buyers are thinking.
"Do I want to buy from BigBox company that consistently delivers things on time...or do I want to buy from flakey artist who I don't even hear from for months."

>But, it's also possible that it's something very personal<
So you keep it simple. "I have a family emergency and I am unable to complete the work that you bought." The same thing you would have to do if you worked at any other job.

I don't think the OP was pestering at all, considering the amount of time that has passed (well beyond a paypal dispute).

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

VERY late reply of mine, but well said! :). Example to all artists who are asking money for commissions. Sort of a READ THIS FIRST for an new dealing artist :P.

[soldierx.livejournal.com]

Gotta love the popufurs.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Yeahhhh, he really think he is God and he still does it to people. Cause I still get people posting bad customer relation with this guy. Cannot believe it. How ignorant can you be :/.

[shivonhusky.livejournal.com]

Hopefully your experience is better then mine :)

[frostpaw.livejournal.com]

commissioned him about a year ago and still no luck getting my art. I am just about out of any form of patience. I too have been getting the this weekend, only he has given me the same this weekend about 4-5 times now at least.