Just after some advice

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

Hi guys, long time watcher, first time poster. I'm not 100% sure if this belongs here but I've seen some advice posts similar in the past.

Recently a friend pointed out to me that some of my old art has been reposted onto a website without my permission. The thing is though, I remember the same site doing this to me years ago (I'm talking 12+ years ago), and I had requested the art to be removed, and they had oblidged.

So when I went back now years later I find that the exact same art is still there, along with some new additions (again old art, but I know it wasn't there when I had asked for the first removal).

The site has an FAQ relating to art removal requests, but when I checked it it says:

FAQ #7: I am an artist and someone told me my art is here.. how to i get it removed? Or, I asked my art to be removed, It _WAS_, but now it is back?
You contact one of the staff and let us know, we will take it down! This site does not condone art theft, all an artist need do is ask.
Any artist folders removed, get recycled back into the site at the beginning of each year. You want it to stay gone? You have to care enough to keep coming back.
If your art is here, it's likely because someone was browsing, found it, liked it.. and wanted to share it with more people, or preserve it if your site goes away. You should feel honored that they love your art enough to spread it, and instead, ask us to put a link to your site in your artist folder!

The bold part is what concerns, and quite frankly annoys me: my question is is such a thing allowed? I know a simple request isn't a concrete agreement, but when an artist says remove my art, it means remove my art, not recycle it for reupload a year later. And is there a way to make them permanent remove the art without them being sneaky about it?

I don't mind reposting, but at the same time I do want control over where my art goes as much as I'm able to. And I find it a bit rude that they're ignoring requests like this. I'm not honored by this in the least, it's not up to them to decide what to do.

Thank you in advance, I'm hope I'm doing this right and this is the only time I have to post here.

EDIT: Firstly thank you so so much for the quick response everyone! I'm at work now so I'll try to respond back as much as possible.

And yes the site is http://tails.kicks-ass.net/index.php?area=help&view=7 - the site has been around for years from what I remember, but like I said, I figured if I had asked them to take art down 12+ years ago it should stay down, but apparently not.

Comments

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

File a DMCA takedown notice and threaten legal action.

[0acorn0.livejournal.com]

By the way, what site is it?

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

That was my first thought, but I wanted to be sure about it XD

It's this one here: http://tails.kicks-ass.net/index.php?area=help&view=7 I've edited the entry to include it (of all the things to forget to add in!).

The site is mostly Sonic fanart, but there is some anthro art there, too. I don't think there's a danger of newer artists being on here, but if you used to do Sonic fanart in the past, might be worth checking.

[dinogrrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this. If you ask for it to be taken down, it stays down. Period.

This complaint sounds oddly familiar to me. I too would like to know what site this is.

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

It's this one here: http://tails.kicks-ass.net/index.php?area=help&view=7 I've edited the entry to include it (of all the things to forget to add in!).

And that's what I figured - it stays down, not "It stays down... until a year later"

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

my question is is such a thing allowed?
Quite simply, nope. As the artist you own the copyright to the work and if they don't have permission to display it they don't get to use it, period. Taking it down then putting it back up is still a violation.

And is there a way to make them permanent remove the art without them being sneaky about it?
Like Acorn said, file a DMCA. Doing it to the site themselves may not help since they seem determined to be antagonistic, contact their webhost.
This should help! http://rising.blackstar.com/how-to-send-a-dmca-takedown-notice.html

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

This.

[jamesalesto.livejournal.com]

Thirded. DMCA their host, not the site. In your DMCA inform them of this little "policy" and their host will start breathing down their neck.

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

You're welcome!

[skittlewolf.livejournal.com]

I really hate the whole: "You should feel honored people are reposting your work!"

Just screams entitlement. Also the whole, you should ask us to link instead of remove just makes it seem to me the mods are lazy. :/

[funkicarus.livejournal.com]

word. it'd be one thing if people were reposting work to like, 4chan. nobody posting there is claiming its theirs and nobody is making a profit off of it.

but actual gallery sites? that's another matter.

[epiceternity.livejournal.com]

That bit makes me Urgh! too. Yeah, I feel real honoured when people breach my creative work rights. It's like taking someones car without asking, letting others drive it and justifying it with 'hey, you have a nice car, you should feel honoured that others want to drive it.' No, just no.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

Off-topic here, but not all sites that are like ponibooru do that. I know a site I go to links to the source and has "artist:[name]" tags. And of course, if an artist doesn't want it there, it stays down.

[ocelotish]

I disagree with this. It would be nice if they would, but it's also hard to impossible to enforce (what do you need a note to be submitted alongside every submission?), hurts the site (it stifles growth, and you have to deal with non-responsive artists), and is quickly and easily resolved by removal and "blacklist" (i.e. you can't post art by these people).

I'm kind of assuming you didn't talk to Lauren Faust or Hasbro about drawing Fluttershy, even that's probably a violation of copyright. I'm sure you'd be happy to remove it if they sent you a note.

Copyright violations are common to ubiquitous online. If they're not making any sort of profit from the art and are willing to remove it when asked, what harm is done? The best thing to do is protect yourself: watermark your images with your name and URL, state in your artists comments that your work may not be reposted. If it really can't be reposted, include a "No reposting" watermark on the image.

(frozen)

[ocelotish]

You're intentionally ignoring my clarifications so you can rant about it.

The website asks permission, if they get it, they upload or ask the artist to, if they don't, they don't. - How do they get permission? Their users are who uploads, not them. How do they confirm permission?

"hurts the site" - and? - Why should they do it if it hurts them?

"quickly and easily resolved" - I've tried getting my art off sites like these and it takes so much time and energy I can't be bothered anymore. I've never found it quick nor straightforward. You can rarely even find an email address. And after it gets removed, all it takes it for one person to re-upload it all again and you start from scratch.
Okay yes, this could be better in some instances. However, the "permission first" model ignores that it can be resolved quickly and easily as apparently e621(?) does. I agree, that then there should be a blacklist.

"Copyright violations are common to ubiquitous online" - Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it okay.
"If they're not making a profit from the art" - A lot of them have adverts so this is debatable, but even if they're not, it's irrelevant.
So when are you taking down your my little pony art? You're violating copyright with it and using it for profit. Or do you have Hasbro's permission?

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

Considering it's still a case of taking without asking, that really doesn't make it any better.

[bork.livejournal.com]

I really want to know what site is doing this.

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

It's this one here: http://tails.kicks-ass.net/index.php?area=help&view=7 I've edited the entry to include it (of all the things to forget to add in!).

[blitzava.livejournal.com]

This may be the site?
http://tails.kicks-ass.net/index.php?area=help&view=7

[shinmaxwell.livejournal.com]

Unbelieveable...I looked at the sight you linked...one of my pictures I drew of Knuckles the Echidna (right here - http://tails.kicks-ass.net/?area=view&path=fancontent/Shinigami%20Maxwell/clean/&view=ShinigamiMaxwell%20-%20Knuckles.jpg) is up there..and I KNOW I didn't put it up there... x_x

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

Checking the other FAQ's, this site sure isn't professional.

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

The site's been around for 12+ years as far as I remember - so a lot of the site's been written in a very "Hey dude, I'm a tough guy!" language that doesn't seem to have been looked into since.

But I'm not a big fan of the whole "If you don't like it not our problem" attitude either way.

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

That's the one! I've edited the entry to include it (of all the things to forget to add in!).

[bailzzararco.livejournal.com]

Another insult is that you should feel flattered that someone likes your art enough to steal it. Eeeuuugghh?

[syrusb.livejournal.com]

It occurs to me that "you should feel flattered that someone likes your X enough to steal it" is only 'acceptable' in regard to something like art.

GEE, your Jaguar XK is pretty awesome, I think I'll steal it! You should be honored I liked your car so much.

[thaily.livejournal.com]

Nope, not allowed. DMCA their host.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Ah, a battle that is almost impossible to win =|, one I have fought for a long long time, and finally just had to give up because I couldn't dedicate my time to having art removed in various places.

I'd say go ahead and DMCA their host, of course, but my own personal course of action is to just watermark everything with a name/website and let them have at it. As long as they know whos art it is, where it's coming from, then I'm "okay" with it. Not fine with it, but it's better then talking to a wall.

Either way, I hope it works out for you! Informing their host of that silly policy should do some good.

[sbneko.livejournal.com]

I've started to feel the same way really.

I used to get extremely upset, but your stuff is going to get reposted all the time. If anything, I just ask for credit and leave it be, but now I'm starting to completely let it go. It does bother me when someone recolours my art or pretend they did it, but my art has become known enough that people do recognize it. Now, it would be a huge issue if they were pretending to be me or taking commissions and not delivering. Although I haven't personally taken the course of watermarking yet.

I don't mean to say you shouldn't fight to get it removed. I completely get why you would and I used to do so, it's your right. Just saying that I personally have given up at this point.

[neolucky.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Now I don't take kindly to recolors or posting of my paysite content, but the big kicker site E621 has been really good lately about removals of that stuff. And since all other chans seem to get content from there, at least I have a tiny bit of control. x_x

I just wish I didn't have to be so careful about what was posted online in general.

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

Oh I totally agree! With sites like Tumblr out there it's impossible to stop it completely, unless I go to extreme measures and have my own site that only allows a select few in - which defeats the purpose of sharing art in the first place considering I don't think mine's good enough to ask people to pay to see it.

I still get that knee jerk reaction though when people recolour my stuff or just outright claim it's theirs. That's when I get annoyed and need to step in. Otherwise a simple redistribute is okay - except in this case when I had already asked for it to be removed and they did a sneaky and brought it back up.

[ocelotish]

Pretty much this.

I haven't had anything stolen, so take with salt. My thoughts are that it's going to be reposted without permission at some point, I can choose to let it bother me or not. I can choose to take precautions (watermarking, etc.), or watermark the hell out of something I don't want reposted, but the ultimate solution is accepting that things will be reblogged, or people will want to reblog my work: do I care, and if I care, what can I do to not worry about it?

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean x.x For a good few years I would be chasing my tail trying to get people to stop reuploading my art until I just couldn't be bothered any more. It bothers me more though when they start claiming it's their work, or they colour over it - that I will keep fighting because I find that very unfair for someone to just take my work while I'm the one that put the effort in.

And I watermark everything with URLs of the host site (i.e. DA or FA) so one way or another it does come back to me. But I do hate the paranoia of uploading something I wanted to share, only to have one person screw it up for me and making it a chore rather than a hobby.

I'll keep my fingers crossed either way! I knew it was a silly policy, but I had to be sure first XD

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

Well. This is interesting.

According to this site (http://www.whoishostingthis.com/tails.kicks-ass.net), the host is "Verizon Internet Services"... which doesn't seem to exist as a proper entity.

Does this mean that the site is being hosted from the owner's house?

[dingus.livejournal.com]

seems likely, since kicks-ass.net is also a free dns host.

that might be even better, since their isp is essentially their webhost. you usually need special permissions or a business line to run a server off your isp connection, so a complaint to the isp might get them booted regardless of their content.

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing he does have a business line, what with all the traffic that site probably has.

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

All the same. At least if you DMCA their ISP, they'll end up losing their internet connection for a while and actually have a feel of regret or upset about stealing. At least until they get a new ISP. :P

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

If what the_outcasts said is accurate, the site has been doing this for more than twelve years.

I don't think the owner even knows how to feel upset about stealing. :P

[ljmydayaway.livejournal.com]

No internet = will feel regret. For at least one moment. Trust me. xD

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

It's not so much that they're stealing, but I really don't like the idea of someone else speaking on my behalf to have my art "archived" illegally just because they won't shift their files to another folder, if they are indeed hosting everything from a home server. And my memory's a bit fuzzy, but considering my art on here dates back to 1999 - 2000, this site has been around for a donkey's age easily.

Though I'm a bit confused about where exactly would I need to file the DMCA to? If their host doesn't exist where do I go from there? (sorry, I just want to make sure I reading everything right)

[shukivengeance.livejournal.com]

In this case you'd DMCA their ISP (internet service provider) which would be Verizon, going by Foxhack's first post.

[zekulapdragon.livejournal.com]

I am reading the site contract, and I find this bit interesting:

PART 2. RESTRICTIONS:
2.1: The Viewer is not allowed to access any page/files other than the index page or this page of the site if:
A. The Viewer is entering The Site seeking material to begin, fuel, or support a lawsuit or legal action against The Site on any grounds, and furthermore The Viewer or any group affiliated with The Viewer will not seek legal action against The Site as a result of The Viewer accessing this material, in the present or at any time in the future or past.



Lol wow....I guess by signing up you are agreeing not to sue them if they break the law. XD

[the-outcasts.livejournal.com]

I saw that, too, when I was digging around for a proper policy.

So it sounds more and more like they want to make a lawless land... without knowing the law in the first place. The site also hosts comic pages from the Sonic comic, so I guess they think this can cover them from getting into trouble.

[otherscape.livejournal.com]

Oh this is hilarious.

Do they really think their silly little TOS is going to out trump copyright law?

re: you'll have to keep coming back

[goatparty.livejournal.com]

I don't understand how they think that's an okay thing to do at all. Not sure if they're trying to make artists think it's too much work to get their art taken down or what, but it's 100% not okay.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

Wait, you have to come back yearly to keep it off? Why? Is it really that difficult to keep things off forever? When you delete stuff, it stays deleted. Why have something complicated?

[greenreaper.livejournal.com]

If they say outright that they'll keep doing it, that sounds like a prima facie case for a lawsuit.