What to do about Artist Refusing to Ship Badge Due to Being Stuck at Work While Post Office is Open

[sawblade5.livejournal.com]

A few months ago I commissioned an artist to do a badge for me. A very simple name badge on a reusable template in a way. I commissioned the Artist in Early March to be mailed after TFF. The badge was not shipped right after TFF so I asked the artist again and she told me it was now gonna be shipped after FWA. Just days before I was set to go to Wild Nights. I asked the artist again if the badge was ever shipped. She claimed it was shipped April 18th. The problem there was I never got the badge so I asked for a tracking number to see what happened to the badge. She didn't have a tracking number so I am guessing the artist never shipped it or it got lost in the mail. In early May I talked to the artist about this and she promised me to send a replacement copy in the mail and I would get a digital copy because I have not seen how the badge turned out. Finally after some back and forth talking and reminders I finally got a digital copy of my badge in mid-May with the promise and getting my actual badge sent in the mail ASAP. A few more weeks passed and I ask about when will she ship the badge to me. She is now giving me the excuse that she is always at work when the post office is open and does not have a chance to ship the badge. My patience has ran out on this issue and I want the Actual Copy of the badge mailed to me.

So what I paid for it was $10+$5 Shipping. The order is past the 45 day PayPal Dispute Limit so I can't dispute and buyer protection does not cover intangible items. She continues to take comissions as of this moment.

I am not ready to reveal the name of the problem artist as of yet.

So what do I need to do about this issue?

Comments

[magedragonfire.livejournal.com]

Paypal actually increased their dispute time window to 180 days. You still have lots of time to file a dispute - so that'd be the first thing I'd do, in your shoes. Since it's a physical object she was selling you - traditional art/prints/etc are not intangible goods - I believe she would have to provide them with a valid tracking number for it to them, in that case, so that may be the best way to get her to actually send it to you.

It's really not hard to step out during a lunch break or something and go to a post office or courier, if one works during their normal business hours.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

It's their problem, not yours. Even if the post office is closed after they're done working I don't see why they can't switch to like UPS or FedEx and schedule a pickup. The cost will probably eat the profit but it's their responsibility and if freight is going to be such an issue they need to charge enough that they can get a freight option that works with their lifestyle.

Like Magedragonfire said the dispute window is much larger than it used to be.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

Not saying this person should charge you more retroactively, but they should find an option that works with them and if it's more expensive then they need to raise their prices to cover it. Kind of miffs me that they're charging for shipping but supposedly can't ship anything.

[kayla-la.livejournal.com]

Yes, ultimately, the artist chose to take a commission type that they knew would require mailing. It is their responsibility to fulfill that part of their obligation, even if it means eating a loss.

If nothing else, they likely know at least one person they could simply ask to take it to the PO for them while they work. They probably just haven't actually tried very hard to solve this problem and think making people wait on them isn't a big deal.

[mistresswolf.livejournal.com]

"they likely know at least one person they could simply ask to take it to the PO for them while they work"

This is one thing that my (tailor shop) customers actually like about my pre-pay policy. If they can't make it during shop hours, they can give their receipt to a friend and the friend can pick the item up, no fuss!

[everainsley]

Not to mention, most post offices have after hour postage kiosks. They're in the area with the PO boxes, so you don't have to be there when the office is open...

[norsepaw.livejournal.com]

I can only guess where that artist lives there must be no post box around.

[foxhack.livejournal.com]

Is the badge large or bulky?

Depending on the size and weight, the seller could just stick it inside a small box (so it doesn't get damaged), slap a shipping label on it, drop it off at ANY mailbox, and send it off. That's what I do with small packages. There is no blaming work, unless the artist wants to send the item via Priority Mail, any item under 13 ounces can be dropped off at a mailbox.

Heck, PayPal gives you a nifty shipping service to boot.

[purpurealuna.livejournal.com]

I'd give them a deadline to use click n' ship (the online system, all you need is any old food scale and a debit/credit card) and they can even schedule a pickup or drop it in any mail box. Paypal can even print postage and they can do the same thing.

[losnyangeles.livejournal.com]

Since it's a traditional print, she can just use a large envelope (with "do not bend" on the cover) and a bunch of stamps, then put it in the nearest USPS mail box.

Some post offices nowadays keep an automated mailing kiosk in their lobby that's available at all hours. I've mailed many things this way -- even at 2 AM when I get off work. Maybe ask if she could look for one of those?

Either way, it's extremely irresponsible of her to just make you wait for so long.

[galaxy-deer.livejournal.com]

It also helps to sandwich it between two pieces of cardboard!
I got a nice traditional piece from someone and that's how I got it, nice and fold free. :D

[bearprince.livejournal.com]

You don't even need to go to a post office to ship things 100% of the time anymore, you can pay for the cost of mailing/shipping through PayPal, print the label, stick it on a large envelope and drop the badge in a post office box anywhere in town and off it goes. It really seems like they just don't want to go through the trouble of giving you what you paid for. (Especially with no tracking number -- it's rare that you ship anything of a decent size and have it NOT come with tracking, from my experience w/shipping through USPS.)

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

Like someone else said, the dispute window for Paypal is actually 180 days and a physical piece of art counts as a tangible item, so if you need to file a dispute, you'd be able to.

About the actual shipping...not being able to go to the post office is no excuse. For one, I don't see how that could be the case unless she works six days a week and never takes a lunch break. But for another, like many others said, you can just print postage out online, either through the USPS website or Paypal itself, slap the postage on a mailer/box, and drop it in any mailbox.

I'd send her a message giving her a deadline (of maybe a week or two) to mail it out by, with the requisite that you get a tracking number by that deadline as proof of it being mailed, and the ultimatum of you filing a dispute on Paypal if she doesn't meet the deadline.

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

Actually our post office is only open 5 days a week, and only stays open between 9am-12pm and 1-4pm.

I order a lot of things online, I have to send my husband to pick things up and with his work schedule, he often can't do it. (5am-5pm, lunch from 12-1pm).

Just wanted to point that out. I agree that it isn't much of an excuse because there's other options and you can mail something without needing to deal with the clerks.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

Do all your post offices have that same schedule or something? Because see, in your situation, you're picking things up, which means stuff is going to be held in the post office that delivers your mail (which is usually the one closest to you). If you're mailing something out, you aren't restricted in the same way, and most places have multiple post offices with slightly different schedules.

I just find it really difficult to believe she either only has a single post office in her area or has multiple but they all have the same exact schedule. It just seems like if that were the case she wouldn't have even considered selling physical items, or she would've warned about being slow to ship things, or something...so it just comes off as a baseless excuse to me.

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

We only have the one Post Office in our town (I don't know why you'd doubt someone only has a single Post Office lol, not all towns are big enough to need multiple Post Offices, nearly every town near where I live only has a single Post Office). Oh, and in the case of things needing to be picked up? You can't pick it up if the office is closed and it's too big to fit in a PO Box. You can only get your stuff if the office is open. Hence my point about scheduling conflicts being very real issue.

If the artist was planning to use Priority Mail, then I can understand the restriction being an issue since it requires a specialized envelope and it being specially sent out by the staff.


Personally, I don't think someone should offer physical items if they know that their schedule conflicts so much with the schedule of shippers. They either need to find someone who can do it for them, or take a few minutes from work to ship it.

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

I definitely lived in a town with a single post office. But now that I think of it we had blue mailboxes that dotted all over the place. I wonder if this person could have gotten a cardboard mailer from Walmart and some stamps and just dropped it in one of those with a bunch of stamps?

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

Yes, there's no reason they couldn't do that, if for some reason they can't just print a shipping label. Assuming it's only a few ounces, they can just slap half a dozen stamps on a mailer and use that.

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

Yeah I agree with that. They could pick up one of those brown envelopes from a Dollar General or Walmart, pad it with cardboard and print postage. It's honestly not much of an excuse, but I do wonder if they even are aware of other options.

[everainsley]

This is not a defensible situation. The seller isn't fulfilling their end of the agreement.

You can pick up Priority envelopes in the area where the PO boxes are. This area is open 24/7 so people can pick up at their leisure. Priority mailers are free. You can also have a stack of them (or any Priority mailing materials) mailed right to you, also for free. The only thing special that Priority needs is the label from the post office stating it's Priority, which can be printed at home. Priority is flat rate, so you just follow the steps and pay your postage on their site to get the label.

You can have mail picked up, even Priority, if you live in an area that doesn't have PO boxes in their office. You can print the postage yourself if you don't have a kiosk in the Post Office (as my tiny town in TN didn't). You can also go to retail locations and ship things not just with postal service. Staples, Office Max, and Office Depot will all ship things. There are still UPS Stores around, and other retailers that ship 3rd party to USPS, UPS, FedEx, and so on.

I have lived in a tiny, tiny town. I did a LOT of eBay shipping then, and I never had an issue mailing out anything, even though I -was- working 6 days a week, and at work during most of the hours they were open. My car wasn't entirely reliable, and the post office was not on my way to work.

If all else fails, since this particular "needs to be mailed" is a badge, get a couple dollars worth of stamps from the grocery store, stick it in a padded envelope, and pray. I mailed a jelly scrubber thing to my mom just this week, in a padded envelope, and it was $2.38 for First Class at the kiosk.

There are options, but you have to be willing to use them. If you don't want to, as this artist seems to be, then don't take mail-out commissions. Not the customer's problem if the seller can't fulfill the agreement.

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

"You can pick up Priority envelopes in the area where the PO boxes are."

Not at mine. The Priority envelopes are only accessible in the office when the clerks are in.

Like I said, I am NOT defending them. I'm just saying that I live where USPS's schedule and office is locked during most people's off hours.

[everainsley]

Then you have them mailed to you. Again, they're free. It doesn't matter if you can get there or not, they will give you the packing materials and they will pick them up at your residence (or place of work). The post office not being open isn't a viable excuse, period.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

There's a reason I said AREA, and not town/city. I'm from a small town with only a single post office, but because it was so small the next town over wasn't very far if you had a car, and anyone who lives in a small town is likely to have a car because most don't have public transport. So yeah, I do doubt that as an excuse, given the context... The context being they sold a physical item--because like you said, if their schedule conflicts THAT MUCH with the post office you'd think they wouldn't have sold physical items to begin with.

"You can't pick it up if the office is closed and it's too big to fit in a PO Box."
^Yes, I know, but that has zero bearing on mailing things out and on what I was saying. I'm saying when you pick stuff up, you have to pick it up from a specific post office and thus are restricted to that post office's hours. If you're mailing something out, you can go to a different location, so it's not the same situation really. It's not that I can't see how someone's schedule might conflict with their local post office, it's moreso that I can't see, if someone has a car, why they couldn't go to a different post office completely. But if all post offices in the surrounding area have the same exact schedule, then I could see how it'd be difficult, but then they should've thought of that beforehand. (And I know you've said that, we're agreeing on that point.)

Also, actually, priority mail doesn't require a special envelope at all. It just requires a priority mail label. The only time it requires a special envelope/box is when you are specifically using flat-rate or regional boxes. Otherwise, you just buy it online, print it out, and slap it on any old mailer/box.

You can't buy first-class postage on the USPS website anymore, but you can get around that simply by using Paypal's shipping label thing, so.

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

Our next town over is a half hour drive and their Post Office is the same situation. The next place from there is a city an hour away.


I don't know why everyone thinks I'm defending them, I'm not. I've just dealt with schedule conflicts and I'm pointing out that this is a realistic situation that people can have a problem with because I deal with it myself.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

I see. That's odd, but I mean...it's always things you really need that seem to be the least accessible, so I guess it's not really surprising.

However, I never said you were defending them, I even said I pretty much agree with you, but I feel like your situation has different context. It's not that I'm saying schedule conflicts can't happen, I'm saying that I can't imagine it actually being a problem for this specific person who voluntarily chose to sell physical items, and then went on to claim she shipped it once before.

Like if this really was that much of a problem for her, how was she able to ship it before as she claimed? If she didn't and only said she had, she was lying then. If she did and it really got lost in the mail, then she in fact *can* make it to the post office. So not only are her excuses not acceptable, but it feels like she made them up to begin with. So I'm having a hard time believing specifically her. Does that make sense?

[bourbon. (from livejournal.com)]

Yeah, I get the feeling that she lied about shipping it previously to be honest. It just doesn't really make a lot of sense.

Like I said to someone else, she shouldn't offer shipping in the first place if she knows that her schedule conflicts with the office hours of the shippers.

[poizenkat.livejournal.com]

i have the same situation where i live so i completely understand what you're getting at. Mailing isnt very accessible in some places. This person shouldnt have taken on the responsibility to mail something if they knew they couldnt, but i can understand the mailing problems.

[starcharmer.livejournal.com]

Yep, same here too. Not in the town where I currently live since it's the biggest city in the state, but where I grew up and several other places I've lived, there was one post office with terrible hours and no access during off hours. But I never offered to mail things if I knew I couldn't get to the post office in time because I was aware of the situation.

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

if you had a car, and anyone who lives in a small town is likely to have a car because most don't have public transport.

Uh, lots of folks in rural areas don't have vehicles. Money and a license are two things essential to having a car, and not everyone has those things. I'm 28, and I don't. I have to depend on my mother or sister for transport til I get my license.

Granted, I also don't offer traditional commissions bc I know I can't reliably get to the post office, but I don't think anyone is excusing the artist because of that. We're just chiming in with reasons why folks might not be able to get to the post office the same as you can.

[kattotang.livejournal.com]

By "anyone is likely to have a car" I did mean more along the lines of access to a car. I know from living in a rural area that it's impossible to live there without *someone* in the family owning and being able to drive a car. (I'm also 28 without a license and depended on my mother for rides when I lived with her, so yeah) This is especially true when you have a job like this artist seemingly does...and it does seem like she has her own car, since if she was getting rides from a family member she could ask them to go to the post office for her...

I'm well aware of all the things that would prevent someone getting to the post office (I've dealt with most of them myself, so please don't assume I'm somehow ignorant of these things). What I have a hard time believing is someone would willingly offer to sell physical things that need shipped while having all these specific problems, and I especially find it hard to believe the excuses after she claimed to have shipped it already.

Basically, I'm not saying anyone is defending her or anything, it's just that I don't believe her excuses are even true given the context of this situation. When I said I find it hard to believe, I meant for her specifically, not that I find it hard to believe some people in general might have issues getting to a post office.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

If this is the United States, as I recall, lots of post offices had to switch to a five day schedule for budgetary reasons. Still, that change was a couple of years back, so the artist should've realized the risk of having to get this done on the weekend anyway.

[kitsumi.livejournal.com]

You can use paypal's multi shipping tool from home and just print out paid postage. It is even cheaper than going to the post office. I have a hard time getting to the post office, and this solved everything. However, at this point if things continue to be like pulling teeth, I would just move on as you did get a digital copy, and it might be less of a hassle for you to get it printed and laminated at an office supply shop. She could perhaps cover the cost of that as a compromise.

[dergish.livejournal.com]

Echoing what everyone else has said. The artist took a commission that they knew needed to be mailed. They need to find a friend or find a different way to get postage. I ship a lot of badges and postage always comes to just under $3 for domestic shipping. It's a lot of stamps but that means you can get postage by going to the grocery store, a bank, or a corner store.

Give the artist a firm deadline. If they don't go to a post office they won't be able to get tracking but if they do ask for proof of shipment. If the badge doesn't arrive before your deadline post a beware. Best of luck!

[amocin.livejournal.com]

There are many ways to ship, even in areas with few options.. You can get stamps at Grocery stores, and Wal-Greens, I think at CVS as well.. Then it can be placed in an outbox.. Even though the post office isnt open, the doors are open and so long as the package has proper posting on it, you can drop a box off in one of their drops.. You can even buy postage online and print it up, so long as you know the proper weight and dimensions..

There really isnt any excuse not to ship things because of work hours these days.. As so much can be done online now, and due to there being multiple carriers with differing hours.

[hunty belmnt (from livejournal.com)]

Echoing the other comments, there is literally no excuse as to why your badge can't be shipped with so many ways and options out there.

The dispute time limit changed to 180 days so you can still file a dispute. I would write her to have a deadline and if not contact paypal.

Post a beware. This artist should not be doing these types of commissions that require mailing if she won't take the time to go to even a kiosk.

[fastbreak333.livejournal.com]

It's one thing to not have time to mail the badge since it collides with her work hours, but telling you that she sent it with no tracking number as proof tells me that she may have initially lied to you as well. Either way, you shouldn't have to go through this much trouble for a badge, so I say file the dispute before it's too late.

[teekchan.livejournal.com]

Many people have mentioned paypals larger 180 day window now, but did not mention, DO NOT cancle the dispute until you have a tracking number. Once closed it cannot be reopened.

[chaossal.livejournal.com]

I would do a charge back for the amount you gave for shipping.
The post office does not need to be open for you to mail something unless it is a big box. For a badge a envelope should be fine to just stick in the mail box for the post to take while they are at work. If they don't have stamps they should order some. No reason to be waiting this long.

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

How big is this badge? Most, I think, could be slotted into a bubble mailer and mailed from a normal post box. I'm pretty sure you can pick up stamps at 7-11.

I can understand not being able to get to a post office reliably, but in that case, you need to make arrangements to mail stuff out.

[scottalottosay.livejournal.com]

"In early May I talked to the artist about this and she promised me to send a replacement copy in the mail and I would get a digital copy because I have not seen how the badge turned out."

Edit: It posted before I could finish my comment. :/
But what I was trying to say was...

"In early May I talked to the artist about this and she promised me to send a replacement copy in the mail and I would get a digital copy because I have not seen how the badge turned out."

Wait, so did she not even show you the badge before she sent it? She could've at least taken a picture and sent it to you. I would personally really want to know what it looked like before being sent to me.

[onfourwejump.livejournal.com]

as many have echoed, there's plenty of online options. but i know i always worry if i don't know the weight, so i've been taking my packages to our grocery store. here, at least, all the meijers offer shipping from the customer service counter, which is open till 9 or 10pm. as long as someone is there, they can do it (and possibly after if there's a manager on duty, though i've never tried so i can't attest to whether that'd work). it's exactly like going to the post office but they have way better hours for me. if you know roughly where she's located, you could see if any place offers usps shipping from their customer service counter. i'm pretty sure i've seen it at other large grocery stores too.