Advice: USPS lost commission

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Hi again!

I need a little help.

Long story short, was commissioned for a fursuit, made it, mailed it on August 25th and it hasn't been seen since August 30th. There is no update to the tracking or anything.
I filed a claim with USPS for the full amount (roughly ($2,200) with proof of the transactions and they offered to pay me $70. I don't even know where they pulled that number from, it doesn't even make sense with the insurance; I filed for an appeal.
Client says that they called their local post office and that an investigation has been opened.

I don't know what more I can do and I'm honestly scared. I haven't spent the money but USPS just lost an expensive, one-of-a-kind costume I can't exactly replicate and, ideally, would like to have them refund me in full for the item they lost.

If it comes to it, how do I go about out-of-pocket calculating a refund for my client? They already have the tail in their possession so I would subtract that from the total cost, but what about things like the cost of materials and such? Is it "cheap" to keep those funds?

Anything would be really helpful right now. I cannot afford to remake the costume again. The $70 USPS tried to offer me doesn't even cover the cost of the fabric.

Comments

[cknsausage.livejournal.com]

You mentioned insurance, do you still have the postage receipt / proof of postage?

I don't know anything about fursuits / the fur-suit business side of things but I'd imagine if you have both of those, just keep fighting it to be covered (if it covered the full amount). It's not your fault, it's the carrier's fault, and insurance is for this kind of thing.

Having said that I feel where you're coming from on the anxiety front, and I feel for the client as well because that's a lot of money to not receive anything.

Keep hounding the carrier and don't give in until they give you a satisfactory response. What does the insurance specifically cover? Full value, partial? Lost in transit? If it does cover full value, then it sounds like they are just looking for a way to get out of paying the whole amount, and I would imagine if you paid out for insurance on it, that would be covered. I would also probe them about how they came to the conclusion that the payout would be only $70? IME lots of people don't wanna make a fuss so sometimes bigger places will get away with stuff cos people generally take the path of least resistance. I could be wrong and there's another factor that is coming into play but to me, that's what it sounds like.

I hope you get a resolution to it!

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

I keep all of my shipping receipts for tax purposes, however I am currently away at college and won't be back at my parent's place until the 28th. I could ask one of them to take a picture of the receipt for me as proof if you think that would make any difference but I already have proof of the transactions and everything posted to the claim itself.

Insurance should be for the full amount, that said I cannot figure out for the life of me where they are getting this $70 number from. $70 worth of insurance? I thought insurance started at $200 and went up anyway?

[wuvvumsoc.livejournal.com]

As cknsausage said keep hounding the carrier. You insured the package and with documents about the business agreement you made with your client, you should prove that the suit is valued at $2200 because that is what your client paid. I would focus on that until you get a resolution from USPS.

You may want to prepare yourself for the other scenarios that could happen unfortunately. The customer is entitled to getting a suit or the money, even if this wasn't your fault. I do think though that given the circumstances, the customer might work something out with you, like an extended deadline so you can work on their suit while picking up some other business to compensate for the loss in income.

It is strange advice but I heard someone say that you can threaten to call your congressman if the USPS is not helping you out. USPS isn't a corporate entity so it may not exactly care about paying you back otherwise.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

As stated I have provided proof of transactions.
I already called USPS twice about it and was lied to about even being able to file a claim to begin with. I could be reading their site wrong but you can file claims over the phone but cannot ask/conduct business regarding the claim over the phone, unlike, say, PayPal.

Also in the journal, I cannot remake this costume. Circumstances now are different than they were even a month ago; I do not have the room to remake some parts of this fursuit. I could ask about refunding for some of the parts (ex, feet) but it puts a horrible feeling in my stomach knowing I spent so much time on an item that I have to spend money and try to replicate all over again when I was so happy with the first result.

I'd really rather not blackmail USPS, haha.

[cknsausage.livejournal.com]

Might it be worth looking into whether it's legal to record phone calls where you live? Some places all you need is the knowledge of 1 party (so, yourself) and then you have proof of whatever run-around they're giving you. Some places need both parties to know though so definitely be careful with this. Though this can be a bit complex when it comes to showing a third party, so definitely if you think you want to do this look into it more / possibly consult legal help.

I don't think you should default to having it come out of your own pocket if you paid out for insurance AND have all the receipts! Gather evidence and escalate it until you get your money back. It's not blackmailing, it's enforcing the service you paid for (insurance) which is essentially a contract: 'pay us x agreed amount and if something goes wrong within y specifications, we will reimburse you'. Or at least that's how all insurance I've ever had worked like. They will try anything not to pay out for something that expensive though.

Do you have the paperwork still on what they specifically cover? Or was it like, an online ToS type thing?

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

WOO BOY I do not feel comfortable recording a conversation over the phone, haha. That DEFINITELY feels like blackmail. They also have that disclaimer when you call about "this call may be monitored for quality" so here's to hoping someone heard the conversations I had and inform their workers that, yes, the shipper can file a claim. I don't think that's my biggest issue here though.

I do not want to have to pay out of pocket but if they're trying to give me $70 then I don't know what to expect as a positive outcome at this point. I honestly don't have high hopes. I can pray that the costume arrives in one piece but that's really it.

I went in person and mailed the fursuit in a 16x15x14 box. They print out a receipt with a tracking number and I gave that to my client.

[jy (from livejournal.com)]

Walk into a post office with copies of all your insurance claim stuff and ask specifically for the post master.

Then tell that person what's going on and ask them what they can do to help you.

SPECIFICALLY the post master. Do not bother talking to anyone else.

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

I'll ask my husband's mom, she's a postmaster. I'll let you know how it goes.

Information Directly From a Post Master

[metallik-hasse.livejournal.com]

This information is directly from my husband's mother, who is a Post Master in good standing:

"This is awful. The best thing is to be persistent. It doesn't say how much they insured it for. The very least the PO owes the insured value plus postage and fees. Some business have private insurance on items mailed. Like jewelry stores. Our insurance is limited in value unless sent registered or Express mail.
They can ask or contact their local postal consumer affairs office.
Continue complaining and pushing for reimbursement. Maybe even postal inspector."

RE: Information Directly From a Post Master

[sillygosling.livejournal.com]

Seconding this as a former postal worker. Youll get further calling the post master in your area, being persistent, and possibly getting the postal inspection service involved. They light the fire under the postal service to get stuff done postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactUs/filecomplaint.aspx
The USPS is bogged down by bureaocracy and an overloaded system, things slip through the cracks sometimes and only by being persistent are they reminded to continue investigation and keep reminding carriers and personel what to look for, so dont lose hope if you dont see results right away and keep at it!

Re: Information Directly From a Post Master

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

The post office I mailed from has issues with their phone lines, would it be okay to visit in person next weekend and speak directly to them there? They know my face so I have a feeling that will make a difference.

Thank you for the link, I'll check it out now!

EDIT: I filed a theft report (since it was the closest thing I could file for) and it said that it was rejected.

Re: Information Directly From a Post Master

[sillygosling.livejournal.com]

Dang, you might have to get personel from the inspection service on the phone or contact them through email to better get help for your situation since technically it can't be filed as mail theft. That doesn't mean they won't be able to offer asisstance or hound USPS on your behalf. As for going in person to your post office- yes absolutely! The more frequently and in person the better.

Re: Information Directly From a Post Master

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for contacting a Post Master for me, I really appreciate it!

How would I go about contacting a local postal consumer affairs office? The post office I mailed the package from knows me very well and the staff loves me, however I won't be able to visit in person until next weekend. Do you think they could give me some pointers or help me out too?

[spookyspooks.livejournal.com]

Ah this is crummy, sorry its happening! Just to clarify because it isn't noted in the OP, did you purchase insurance that covered the total value of the package when you shipped the item? You usually need to specifically ask for it "Hi yes I'd also like to insure this for $2200 etc" when you go to the post office to ship your package, and thats what's going to make all of the difference.

If so, don't bother with the phone, go straight to the post office! I've never had luck with them on the phone and they tend to be a lot more helpful in person.

[spartanwerewolf.livejournal.com]

This is weird. Why would they only offer $70?

Did you insure it for the full $2200 amount? I've always had to ask for insurance for more expensive items- when I shipped fursuit parts, I had to specifically request that they insure them for the value of having new ones made, just in case Canada Post or USPS lost it in transit. It's usually $30-60 extra; it should be on your receipt, for basic insurance, or they gave you a separate slip for claim purposes for a higher amount, and (I think) the parcel has to be signed for. That's been my experience shipping from Canada to the US, and the experience of a couple maker pals I've got.

Basically, if they don't find it, your options are like... hounding USPS for the insured value, remaking the suit, or refunding your client. Crappy situation, hopefully they locate the parcel; with any luck, it just got routed to Miami or something, and they ain't found it yet. Fingers crossed it turns up!

[zrcalo.livejournal.com]

tbh, it might show up somewhere. Where did the tracking end? it may be at that location due to label slippage and such. I would call there as well.

last week I had a package returned to me that I shipped in 2017, so it CAN happen!

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Ahuh, I hope it shows up sooner than over a year later, the anxiety would kill me. @__@

The tracking ended a few miles north of where I shipped it from in Springfield, MA. I'll be in the area again next weekend so I'll be visiting the post office I mailed it from!

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Update, the client says that USPS contacted them saying that the package was lost in a fire en route to Cincinnati. I did a bunch of Googling and nothing news-wise is coming up for this, let alone the tracking has not changed and there's been no movement on my claim.

[kestral-kitsune.livejournal.com]

...i don't think i actually believe that. specially since your tracking shows nuthing

https://www.postaltimes.com/postal-vehicle-fires/ this lists the vehicle fires

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

... Well that is legitimately troubling. I don't like lies.

Also, as an update to my post, my first appeal was denied (no reason was given) so I filed a second time. Still no sign of the package.

Client said they want me to sue USPS with them and I declined, they're more than welcome to, but sent me a message today suggesting that they may be looking to me for compensation now which bothers me a bit. For a while I thought they were in the same head space as me, which is that I did the work and mailed it out. I can't control what a postal service does with the mail and that's out of my hands. But I don't know what to say or do aside from keeping tabs with USPS every day (which is very tiring).

[jamesalesto.livejournal.com]

As far as outside entities are concerned (Paypal, Etsy, Credit Card companies) the seller is responsible for safe delivery and it's up to them to repay the client should the item get lost. They will likely side in the client's favor should they issue a chargeback.

How the legal system handles that, I'm not sure. But if you're in a different state they very well will have to travel to yours in order to sue you.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Assuming it comes down to having to repay them, how would I go about doing it? I completed the work and bought the materials. They also have a piece of the costume in their possession as I gave it to them at a con since they happened to come to my table.

[jamesalesto.livejournal.com]

From the time we researched this for another beware, our understanding is that you would have to compensate the client out of pocket and recoup your losses from USPS. Because in the eyes of the third party sites the onus was on the seller to purchase adequate insurance to cover their losses. Or to have business insurance.

(Though I left a message in the mod chat asking our mod with fursuit experience.)

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Insurance was purchased though, and I gave them proof of the receipts and transactions. My parents told me I got a check in the mail from USPS yesterday for the $70 but they denied my first claim today so I filed another.

Would I have to refund in full? In my TOS it states that there is no refund on the 30% downpayment, and that was spent on the materials.

It's been nearly a month since the package was lost but there's some holes in the story (the fire that never happened, client telling me the label burned off when I wrote on the package with permanent marker) so I'm going to try to do a little more digging before issuing a refund and calling it a loss.

I appreciate the opinions, I've never dealt with something like this before so I'm kinda lost and hearing another voice is great!

[jamesalesto.livejournal.com]

I don't think we've had this happen before, but I believe Paypal would likely side entirely in their favor. Are you out of the chargeback window?

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

The first payment was April 1st but the rest were in the following months so I don't think so.

I hate hate hate hate hate handouts, but would refunding the client and setting up a Go Fund Me (again, if it comes to that) be cheesy?

[jamesalesto.livejournal.com]

It's pretty much understood that you would owe them a full refund if it truly is lost. Mind you if this some kind of ruse there's almost no way they would be able to wear it in the fandom.

How you choose to recoup the costs is up to you.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

That's why I'm going to try my best to get as much information as I can before refunding them, because if it is a ruse I'll be damned.

Also, would it be the refund minus the tail since they have that?

[jamesalesto.livejournal.com]

If they intend to keep the tail, yes, I would imagine it would be minus that from the refund. If they don't want to keep it it may be good business to accept a return and refund. That would be a personal choice on your part.

[sillygosling.livejournal.com]

Did usps confirm the fire to you or have you only heard this from the client?

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

According to the client, there was a fire en route from my state to their state and they called them saying that the label could have been burned off...

... When the package is being mailed from my neighbor state, there is no label on the package (I write onto the cardboard in permanent marker) and there is no proof of a fire happening. A truck did catch on fire yesterday in their state but the news article did not state what kind of a truck it was and USPS knows nothing about the fire.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much! I think I've entered this tracking number/information into dead mail forms twice now but it doesn't hurt to add it to another :)

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

As of this morning:
- Client was refunded.
- Started a Go Fund Me.
- Found out there WAS a fire and had this confirmed by two post offices in the client's state. Package may or may not be damaged. They don't know. No date was given for the fire. I should be finding out tentatively on Monday about the state of the package and if I will receive a refund or not.
- Was warned by said women on the other sides of the phone about... related things.

Will update this as it goes.

[laughsatthunder.livejournal.com]

Well, I called today since I didn't get a phone call yesterday.

Package was destroyed in the fire. They have to go through some cleansing process but there's a very good chance none of it is recoverable (I mean, it's polyester plastic fibers).